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reproducing studio sound or live music sound?
Obviously, if your system has changed, then that would be relevant to bring up. If you can generalize to other systems, great (if possible to know).
thanks for interest.
roger wang
Follow Ups:
N/T
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
to comment.
just teasing.
to answer the/my question, small studio/few instruments is the easiest to reproduce BUT i'm very unfamiliar with live sound (unamplified or not), so not really qualified to speak as to a comparison. hence, my posting.
roger wang
Are you unfamiliar with actual live sound (as opposed to "live sound" recordings)?Attending as many live performances as possible will familiarize you with what
to expect from music, instruments, organized sound production. If unable to attend
concerts or performances due to either financial or physical restraints catch as many
free concerts/performances as possible, wether the music is your cup of tea or at least
bearable. Unbearable won't really help on any level.It's imperative to have the experience(s) of listening to live music
in any form (acoustic or amplified) to give you the necessary perspective
in setting up a sound system that will end up pleasing you and lead
towards reproducing recorded sound in a manner you find (at the very least)
acceptable.Hong Kong has a rich cultural life and I would imagine that as in any world class
city there is a variety of live music being played by talented musicians every day
somewhere within reach with price ranges starting at free and styles/venues to
fit most any and every need.IF you need recommendations for RECORDED live music you are in the right
place, with the experience(s) of MANY here that would and could make recommendations
to fill a broad (not Marilyn Monroe) variety of tastes, styles, genres and qualities that
should keep anyone intrigued and involved for a LONG, long time.My system is best at small, acoustic performances, but my favorite and current BEST sounding CD lately is this:
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure
Edits: 01/11/15
has one staple: opera (chinese traditional style). you like cats? you like cats screaming? then, come to a chinese opera. you'll be in your element.
roger wang
no matter what language it's in and stick to the cats.
I would think there might be some clubs, bars, cafes or
cultural centers where other forms of music would be presented
by aspiring musicians spreading their wings. Even to hear pop
bands/singers, some 60's style folk music, a Dave Brubeck clone.
Not necessarily ideal venues per se, but somewhere to hear
live music no matter ideal circumstances in order to get
familiar with it.
Bummer!
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
it's the paisley dog barking flowers from the ceiling.
I generally prefer LARGE studio or SMALL VENUE live to either small studio or LARGE live.
Isn't the objective of a studio to produce recordings that simulate "live"? ..... [-;
be it studio or "live".
"Man is the only animal that blushes - or needs to" Mark Twain
Given that I have shoe-horned my system into a small space - it renders Studio recordings somewhat better - given the quality of the original recording - I have an ECM recording of Ebehard Weber that will always present a small window of sound/soundstage that is well hung between the speakers - but palpably reduced from what it could have been...
OTOH - My copy of Keith Jarred at Koln is not rendered as though it was recorded INSIDE...
I think that it has more to do with the recording than the system - assuming that the system can get out of its own way...
Happy listening
If the recording is good the playback will be good. The exception is music that has lots of low bass, such as 32 foot organ pedals, since my speakers are only good to about 27 Hz and my room is small.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
N/T
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
The best sound is of small scale music.
Large orchestras, and Rock are not done justice as I do not have a lot of low frequency 'oomph'.
I COULD have the lows covered if i wanted them.. But living in an apartment and not wanting to get thrown out for noise.. I skip the LF sonic booms..
Shahinian Diapasons
Getting kinda sick of this "live" sound that is so often referenced in audiophile circles when most are referring to "hear music performed live but through mikes and pro sound speakers.
Hell even at Audiophile events (CES or THE Show), the performers are more often standing there playing, but sound is pumped out via speakers.
And even outstanding locations like Hollywood Bowl or Band shells, mikes and line arrays abound.
And a recorded "live event" is just a studio recording done outside the studio, with all the limitations and post processing done in studio.
About the only true live sound is people playing on street corners or in small venues with trio's. Kinda limits the music genre that we can use for this "truly live sound"
"Getting kinda sick of this "live" sound that is so often referenced in audiophile circles when most are referring to "hear music performed live but through mikes and pro sound speakers."
"even at Audiophile events (CES or THE Show), the performers are more often standing there playing, but sound is pumped out via speakers."
"even outstanding locations like Hollywood Bowl or Band shells,". "Outstanding?!
Surely you jest, or, these are comments from your limited, and maybe young, experience. There is a whole 'nuther world of live, unamplified, music out there.
:)
Older and clearly wiser than you.
You left out "correct".
The Hollywood Bowl, according to engineers and musicians who have worked there, sucks.
And I've played in the band shell in Montreux, and it sucks, too.
But thanks for the thought.
:)
to subdivide it out. Live is music somewhere people can go see it. Good enough. Some rooms are shit, most times it is amplified but not always. We know this........
E
T
"Live sound" is simply sound that sounds as it does in the real event, regardless of how the real event is produced.
We've also attend the Akron Symphony at EJ Thomas a few times, but besides orchestras many blue grass and folk singers still perform in smaller venues without amplification, although those are getting harder to find.
Kodo also puts on a grand live unamplified performance, if you enjoy pure percussion. I haven't seen them for quite a few years, but they're worth seeing at least once in your lifetime.
Years ago, after listening quite happily to my system for hours and reveling in how good it sounded, I went out for a beer.
When I got to the bar there was a guy in the corner playing guitar and he was accompanied by a female vocalist.
There was no amplification of any kind.
My system sounded like crap in comparison.
I ended up drinking quite a few beers.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
"My system sounded like crap in comparison."
It shouldn't have. Perhaps the recordings you were using were crap.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
I still play the same records today and they sound stellar.
At the time (1980ish) I had a Nikko NA-780 integrated amp, a pair of Yamaha NS5 speakers and a BIC 940 turntable with an Ortofon FF15XE cartridge.
The trip to the bar was enlightening. My system was crap.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
I know that some of my past setups sounded good to me at the time, but were trash in retrospect.
These days, I really only care about one thing: does it develop an adequate sense of presence to evoke a positive emotional response? Does listening to a piece of music produce goosebumps every so often? If a system does that, I really don't think it reasonable to expect anything further. Problem is, that's a moving target.
It's all good.
...are key. I'd rather not have a system than have one that couldn't give me goosebumps on occasion.
Little Feat: Waiting For Columbus; Mercenary Territory. Goosebumps, every time.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
...see them live, did you?
"What's easier to achieve in YOUR system reproducing studio sound or live music sound?"
A satisfying room/playback setup doesn't discriminate live vs studio recordings, for which they both vary greatly but not insurmountably for success.
at least I think it should be. YMMV.
How analogous the playback with what was recorded is somewhat a crap shoot though I think with generalizations one could bias the results to favor one or the other.
generalizations = selection of recordings, system colorations, speaker positioning, playback space, etc.
Give me rhythm or give me death!
Do you mean live music that is recorded in a studio vs. live music that is recorded in a music venue?In some cases, I can pick up when a piece of music is put together track by track and it's a bit discomforting.
Observe, before you think. Think before you open your yap. Act on the basis of experience.
Edits: 01/09/15
"Is it RIGHT though? Who knows?"
Isn't that always the case with studio recordings? There is no "right". They are a success if you enjoy them, a failure if you don't. One way to think of it is that the sound being generated by your speakers in your room IS the original event. There was never a real one to try and duplicate.
Now an event capture is somewhat a different story. And I think they can go pretty well. Years ago when we had season tickets to our symphony I went to a recording session. At the time the acoustics of the hall were poor and they had put sheets of plywood over the front seats to try and get something resembling a decent hall sound. But I enjoyed the experience and later when the CD came out, bought one. Now this was quite a while later but I thought the recording sounded largely the same as what I had heard at the session. In other words it had "High Fidelity". But not super-good sound, that would have been LOW fidelity since the original performance didn't. When I play it I'm there again from memory, so it's fun.
Without the reference of hearing the original we really have no way of truly assessing fidelity so it really boils down to is it reasonably plausible and do we enjoy it. Even hearing the original has severe limits since it depends on where you are sitting and if a PA system is used then it's part of the original.
I like "live, unamplified music". But it's just almost impossible to hear in this age of "turn it up". On the bright side, that means that my home stereo sounds better than most 'live' performances!
Rick
just the words themselves "reproducing live" is a dead giveaway. The combo is something George Carlin would have field day with. It's what we perceive and some of us have better imaginations than others.So there is a band facing you playing at 100db with a wall of speakers 15 feet high and for some reason you perceive depth and sound stage. How about your seat? is it perfectly in the middle or 30 seats left or right. Is the venue acoustically perfect or is it like most venues?
I say all this digging the way my system sounds with no real desire to upgrade anything. My system plays nothing but recorded music.
Edits: 01/09/15
such as military intelligence
E
T
Progressive wisdom!
I think its easier to reproduce a good studio recording in every system. Most studio and recordings in general aren't very good but when you do find a good one it is special.
It is harder to do in a live venue compared to a studio that is more controlled if you will. When you add the spatial information of a live venue compared to a studio which is smaller and more controllable 99% of the time its another reason to "vote" for the studio being easier. I realize there is a counterintuitive aspect to that statement in that a larger venue "should" contain more spatial cues.
All that said it ultimately falls in the engineers hands in terms of the room and its character (studio or live venue) and the gear used and techniques used to make the recording. Recordings vary so much with so little data on the album cover most times to let us know possible reasons why. I do find a studio recording most often does a better job in left/right image but a [good] live recording can get front to back space (harder for a system to reproduce IMO) better because that "space" is more often there in a live venue.
E
T
There is a major difference in how music is performed in the studio vs live venue.
In the studio thwe music is recorded in bits and pieces. Rhythm section first. then horns, then strings, then vocals and additional overdubs. Also all these parts may be done at different studios, even in different countries and finally mixed at another studio. Unless the band is really good the performance can really suffer vs the band playing together at a venue. A good example for me is Adele 19 and 21 vs Adele at Royal Albert Hall. I feel both performance and even the sound of 19 and 21 are inferior to the recording of the live concert
Alan
Awe d o filie is exactly correct. Studio recordings are much easier to play back because the need to preserve phase relationships is not needed. Preservation of phasing provides the reality of air and substance around the instruments....very difficult to preserve correctly right down to the original mike placement. ...and then finally to the speaker reproduction. Last night I went to a restaurant where a live band was performing.....yes the sound was big, bass, dynamics were there, but with the sound system speakers all over the room, it just didn't sound like live musicians were playing.
Gee, that IS a tough one to answer directly, as everyone has an opinion and a preference...
Having said that (admitting my own biases?), my system disappears when playing live (well recorded) material- that is, the speakers cease to be the where the points of sound are generated from, and I am left with a convincing, 3D image that extends around, over, behind and ahead of me.
Is it RIGHT though? Who knows? I've never been to the hall in Chicago where Reiner and the CSO recorded. I haven't hung out in the studios where Kraftwerk and Radiohead created their art (or for that matter, argued with the members of Steely Dan about what mike to use on the drums or how to play that bass part with the right groove).
What I can say with assuredness is that every time I sit down to listen to music (record, DVD-A, FM, most CDs), with the lights off, the system ceases to exist in the confines of the living room. IS my system that good, or is it my brain, as simple a music lover that is, fooled into an alternate musical universe?
Tell me what YOU think about your own experiences in listening...
Cheers,
Dman
Analog Junkie
"I've never been to the hall in Chicago where Reiner and the CSO recorded"
That was a great hall when the reiner recordings were made only later to be ruined when remodeled. It has been remodeled several times but though the sound has improved it never returned to its original glory. I attended Cso recordings for 35 years, from reiner to Bareboim
Alan
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okay, others have given their impressions - what are yours?
rlindsa
answered above, but that's not important; that's not the issue.
your issue appears to be a prejudice of this board: an original poster (?) has to answer the question that is posted.
just plain wrong, on many levels. see if you can see the reasons...
roger wang
No prejudice, and no one has to answer the question he/she posted.
You said, "I'll give my impressions after reading the others [n.t.a]"
When I posted my question ("okay, others have given their impressions - what are yours?"), quite a few others had posted their impressions, but you had not yet.
So I asked.
rlindsa
and i answered.
you haven't gotten the point yet.
(in my answer, i additionally said an answer is not mine to give, but since two posters asked - you and another - i gave my unanswering answer).
the prejudice of the Audio Asylum is an asker ('poster' of a thread) has to and is supposed to and is looked down upon for not answering the question posed. seems pretty half-ass and back-asswards: why post a topic you see to having an answer to?
i don't mean to single out A.A. here as other audiophiles on other sites might play this Reversal Game (my wording) too.
roger wang
Roger,I asked my question AFTER you had volunteered to give your impressions (after seeing others') and BEFORE you had replied to another poster's post. When I asked my question, how was I to know that you would reply later?
I agree that it wouldn't make sense to ask a question you already know the answer to - if it has a specific answer. But you asked for people's experience in THEIR OWN systems. Why is it so unreasonable to ask you back what your experience in YOUR system has been?
I'm really not sure what you are getting testy about.
rlindsa
Edits: 01/13/15
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