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Any audiophiles here using this CD treatment (clean/polish) product?
Read the review on Dagogo.
Follow Ups:
I have used Essence of Music to treat about 1000 CDs over the past year or so. It is a very good product. The sound of instruments becomes more realistic and there is better separation between the instruments. I don't understand how it works, but it clearly does work--and the improvement is quite significant. You do NOT need a high-end system to hear the benefits. I have been treating CDs just prior to ripping them onto my computer. I find that polishing my discs with Microsmooth (a Mapleshade product) before using Essence of Music improves the results.
Welcome! Conklin, very informative.
Happy Holidays Friends, I've just read all the posts on this thread. Thanks to those who have tried it and commented. It's funny to me to see comments by those who haven't tried it. In decades of "master tweaking" I have tried many CD treatments. I find EOM to be the best by far. It really does bring out the Essence of Music. I've heard it do wonderful things on many high end systems. EOM is designed for hi end systems so if one does not have a super system, the advantages of OEM would be lost in the noise. I do not re-treat hardly ever but cleaning more than once can slightly improve even more. I've developed my own method of treating CD's with EOM.
I have a cd edge cutter, 2 stage CD demagnetizer, a super cd mat, and use Sharpie black oil paint pens to darken the edge. All make a huge improvement in my super detailed and extremely musical system.
Before a bunch of you jump on ddraudt just because he hasn't posted his system, consider that he might actually have a clue about what he's talking about. Having had conversations with Dave over the years as a friend in the business, I know he has his feet on the ground and knows good sound.
Brian
So much music, so little time!
Nt
Brian
So much music, so little time!
Nt
but feel free to "phone it in" if your fertile imagination tells you to do so :-)
Brian
So much music, so little time!
Nt
I believe that would be spelled high end , as in "Low end, high end".
Hi end would be saying hello to someone's behind.
ddraudt-
what components are in your system?
nt
" if one does not have a super system, the advantages of OEM would be lost in the noise..."
The old standby of if you can't hear the difference, your system is not superior enough.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
I have been told by a friend that he demoed EOM while going to lunch with this guy. They heard the difference in a slightly above average
car audio system while driving down the road. I would have to assume that it was heard in the presence of noise. Additionally, just the other day, I demoed the product on a computer with a run of the mill 2.1 speaker system. It was only a few seconds untill he said wow! I don't want folks to believe that it requires a high end system to get positive results when it simply is not true.
Edits: 11/30/14
Because " if one does not have a super system, the advantages of OEM would be lost in the noise..."
just NEVER reads well or looks good, especially on a first post and ESPECIALLY by (gonna
assume here) the manufacturer.
Perhaps he'll get more adept in communication in future posts at AA.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
Thank You! Chris.
Welcome! ddraudt-
Thank You for your response. Feel free to mention other CD treatment(s) for those of us who do not own super high-end systems!
Question, what was your previous favorite CD treatment? Just curious.
Since I rip all of my cds to a raid system and doing that minimizes error correction, I assumed that the Essence of Music would not add to the fidelity of music. I was quite wrong. I have re-ripped many cds and some sacds that are then made into DSD replayable files. Everyone of these to date has been greatly improved. Simply put there is more information off the disc that is captured.
Norm,
Did the ones that were improved already have a clean Accuraterip checksum?
I can't fathom how two error-free data sets can sound differently due to having fussed with the media characteristics at some previous stage of the process. But from my experience some CD's really need help to get a clean read and just washing them may not be enough.
Playing them in real-time is, of course, a whole other kettle of fish...
Rick
All interesting points guys.
.
Nt
Silly question, but why not just do a bit perfect rip once (with CRC verification) and then playback from a non-optical drive that supports better error correction ?As a test, it would be interesting to treat a CD, rip it and see if the perceived improvement is captured by the rip (or if the CRC changes). If the improvement is captured by the rip, then there is no need to burn $$$ on re-treatments.
Edits: 11/27/14
I have been using multi read ripping software for about a decade. The engineer part of me refuses to use the term 'Bit Perfect' because I do not have access to the 'master' file. My software does multiple reads looking for a matching bit pattern before it writes that pattern to the hard drive. Who can say that the bit pattern it read multiple times was the correct one. All I can say is it did get that same bit pattern several times before it wrote it to disk. I have found that after treatment the time it takes to read the entire CD to file is faster. That tells me that the software did not have to read as many times to get a matching bit pattern. I have heard a difference between the rips of a treated vs. an untreated many times and now I do not waste my time ripping a disc that has not been treated.
Chris,You do understand dBpoweramp Reference has a library of CRC's on tap?
Muti-read software has been commonplace for a long time, but it does not replace checksums.
When my track rip's CRC fails (about 2%), I will clean/polish the disk and re-rip after which it will usually get the matching CRC unless the damage to the physical media is too extreme. If hand cleaning does not work, a local resale shop has a professional polishing machine that I make use of from time to time.
As you alluded to, with dirty/damaged media, you can re-read multiple times and get the same wrong answer multiple times (just like repeatedly making the same math mistake). That is why I prefer a CRC checksum to let me know if I have a proper rip for my library or not.
Being an engineer, you understand the importance of checksums versus getting the same (possible wrong) answer multiple times.
If you are not getting the correct checksum, you are listening to an altered version of the original. If you like the altered version better, than so be it. Your personal tastes on coloration (or lack of coloration) is what counts.
Just my 2 cents.
Edits: 11/30/14 11/30/14 11/30/14 11/30/14 11/30/14
... is the Audio Desk Systeme CD Sound Improver.
It works (or, is said to work) by bevelling and resurfacing the edges of CDs, changing the way stray light is reflected into the internals of the CD player via the edges of the CD during playback.
Also, by trimming and *balancing* the edges of the rotating mass (the CD) more perfectly than is done during normal manufacturing processes, the CD is able to spin more smoothly and with less wobble, so that it is wiggling around a bit less as the laser is trying to read it. We get the tires on our car balanced for smoothness during operation, so why shouldn't we balance our CDs for smoothness of operation? Those of us who own top loading CD players like the Rega Planet can see that CDs do not always spin smoothly. Some CDs are better balanced than others are due to slight manufacturing inconsistencies. The Audio Desk Systeme is designed to correct for some of these inconsistencies.
This is a very cool product genungo.
...
First burn it to a high quality black CD, then use the audio desk to bevel the edges and then use the Essence of Music. Lot of work, but best I can tell you don't have to do it but once and not all at once.
Beatnik's stuff http://web.me.com/jnr1/Site/Beatniks_Pictures.html
I would trim the blank black cdr and then treat it with EOM and then burn the disk. I have already done it both ways and it is obvious
Edits: 11/27/14
I bought it from Brian Walsh when I visited a few months ago. Fantastic stuff!
They are pretty clear to NOT use it for SACD's but just CD"s so that's what I have been doing. Seems to help quite a bit. Worth it, I think!
============================
As audiophiles, we take what's obsolete, make it beautiful, and keep it forever.
Hey! I have a blog now: http://mancave-stereo.blogspot.com or "like" us at https://www.facebook.com/mancave.stereo
Thank You! Bromo.
Have you noticed the CD(s) you once treated, require a re-treating?
I have used it on SACD's many times. There are only a few problem discs and they are identified in the FAQ on the website. The only discs that it is not compatible with are a very few dual layer hybrid SACD / CD's that came out of a European production house. I have also used the treatment on DVD and BluRay disc without any problems.
Make sure the words you type today taste good because you may get to eat them tomarrow.
...$150 from your website.
No thanks.
If I didn't experience the demo, I would have presumed it was a waste of money too..........
I've been using since its introduction. No looking back.
Brian
So much music, so little time!
...have you compared it to any others?
I have been using Optrix for years because it's cheap and makes my CDs sound better.
L'art du son is supposed to sound better but costs a lot more.
There are many others...
mkuller-
when using Optrix, do you have to re-treat or touch up your CDs ?
Yes, I've used them and others. I was urged by a friend whose ears and judgment I trust to try EOM. End of the road.
Brian
So much music, so little time!
Edits: 11/26/14
Short term, the product actually works.... The effect is a sense of "space" and palpable presence of the performers.... Sounds less like CD, more like vinyl, in that regard.
But in several months, I will compare treated vs. untreated, just to make sure the effects aren't short lived. In the past, I've used products that seemed to work initially, but the effect either wore off or degraded sound over time.
One interesting aspect of this product is an idea borrowed from LAST Record Treatment. The company provides stickers (of almost the exact same size) to mark the treated CDs (stuck on the case, of course). So you know at a glance which CDs were or were not treated.
I have demoed Essence Of Music many times using a pair of disks (one treated and one not) that was treated over 1.5 years ago. The Buddy Guy track has been played several hundred times by now. That live recording usually only takes a few seconds for most listeners to 'get it'. I have several pairs of discs that were treated over a year ago and I demo any of them without reguard as to how long ago they were treated.
Make sure the words you type today taste good because you may get to eat them tomarrow.
Just ran an impromptu "treated vs. untreated" test.... I still noticed the treated "sounding more like vinyl" effect.... Don't know if it's as profound as immediately after treatment, but it's still there. This is roughly 5 months after treatment. (The Who- "Ultimate Collection" CD set.... I have 2 sets, one treated, the other not.)
Sometime mid next year, I'll do this again, and will do it "blind" on different tracks, to reduce possible "placebo effect".....
For a time I swore by a fairly pricey CD treatment with special treatmet cloth, etc with nice results. I'm not gonna' tell you what I use now.
But if this product is like other CD treatment products, I'll bet dollars-to-donuts you'll still lose sonic benefits within hours of treatment and need to retreat every time.
That's my bet anyway, but it would be nice if you only need to treat once and forget-about-it.
Besides the good news is with my external drive and USB ports, I rarely need to reach for a CD to treat.
Point well taken Todd.
I am looking for long-term satisfaction.
It is illogical to keep "treating" my CD collection over time.
You can also put the stickers on the discs, preferably near the center.
Brian
So much music, so little time!
Brian, I once heard a cd painted with AVM paint that was slightly painted more on one side versus one that was carefully spray painted. The latter sounded much better. I would not put the EOM sticker on the cd, but I admit that I haven't tested this.
> > The Essence of Music is a product designed to reduce laser read errors, caused by bi-refraction, and the jitter caused by the laser read errors. < <
Terrific! It should be dead nuts simple to put up some charts showing significant reduction of laser read errors and jitter after application of the magic sauce. What? The reviewer didn't conduct any testing to validate those claims? Why, pray tell?
So, basically, another in a series of baseless claims. No thanks...
-RW-
no matter lack of published/proclaimed data/numbers/specs, et al.
At least that's what my EARS conveyed.
Too bad the Essence of Music treatment is so damned expensive; I'd like to try it out.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
I don't remember the products specifically, but I have tried several CD treatments that I thought made the CD sound worse, from the get-go.....
I've also yet to encounter a treatment that I thought permanently improved the sound. I should have a better idea about the Essence of Sound treatment after a few more months.
That's my test. I must have tried a dozen of these things, starting back with Sam Tellig's Armor All idea (seriously, do NOT try this at home), and proceeding to the green pen, Walker Vivid, Mapleshade Mikro Smooth, Auric Illuminator, something called Finyl, Optrix, the laughable disc that glowed, various mat thingies from Herbies, and so on. Oh yes, and we can't forget the Intelligent Chip no matter how much we'd like to. Only Optrix remains, mainly because it does a really good job on my glasses when they get dirty.I'm not saying the rest (except Armor All and the Chip) are total losers, just that I no longer feel the need to use any of them and haven't for ages. But I'm still a sucker* for (cheap) tweaks :-)
* That's how I wound up with an AudioPrism "Ground Control."
Edits: 11/27/14
Yes Dave- there are a plethora of these 'CD Treatment' products out there...
Nicknamed "L' Art du Suck" by some naysayers.
Jena Labs
Liquid Resolution
Nanotech 8500
Auric Illuminator
never tried the Liquid Resolution.Have been very happy with the Jena Labs and Auric Illuminator (both gels or pastes, coincidence?)
which take more care and time to apply but always seemed worth the effort.The Nanotech less so.
Colored marker to the edges (ever decide which color works bets for YOU?), Herbie's Black Hole (sadly discontinued,
luckily I bought a couple), and them shiny discs sound DAMN good.For the price of the EOM, I'll stick with the two mentioned treatments and less fancy/elegant over packaging
targeted at audiophiles with deep pockets.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination"-Michael McClure
Edits: 11/27/14
Thanks! for sharing musetap-
I am seeking a one treatment process product.
Not interested in having to re-treat my CDs later down the road.
Most likely the anti static element in any CD fluid, or say Nordost anti static spray, the effect could last perhaps a week or several months, even industrial strength anti static sprays are not permanent, thus you might have trouble meeting the criterion of one time treatment.BIf you are intent on removing chemical reside from the surface of the CD if that's your goal one time might be sufficient. Or if you are trying to fill in micro cavities once is probably sufficient. Won't even mention demagnetization, which (ideally) should also be performed. And the CDs need to be demagnetized regularly so I suspect if you are trying to avoid work, CDs is probably not the ticket.
Nanotech 8500 here. I remember Clark Johnsen found it insufficiently attractive in his shootout and then sort of changed his mind when I pressed him a bit. I moved from Auric Illuminator to the Nanotech and am content. I would love to know exactly what each of the elixirs actually does but have never had it explained very well.
I would like to think some of the elixirs remove mold release compound MRC from the subsurface of the clear layer but I have never found proof or even evidence that MRC is employed In the manufacturing process, oh, well. And I suppose an anti static element would be nice.
Edits: 11/27/14 11/27/14
Intron 8500 "consists of highly purified water & 50-Nano-meter sized organic conductive polimer + 8-Nano meter sized ultra-micro pure silver particles. These particles are dispersed as a high density rate, thus the liquid and particles will [fill in] the scratches on the discs, while covering the surface with a protective coating...[it] creates an unobstructed path for the laser pick-up of your CD or DVD, BD player/recorder to easily read and write the digital data imprinted on optical discs. ... [it] also eliminates electrostatic charges...minimizing the adherence of dust particles..."So fills in scratches, helps discourage new ones, eliminates static charges...and may do more they're not mentioning, though I don't know why they wouldn't say all they can. Still these things don't strike me as sufficient to accomplish what I hear.
What I hear is greater clarity, increased smoothness, decreased edginess. None of these effects is dramatic but all are audible. I put it on new discs and occasionally use it to try to repair screwed up rented DVD's. Every once in a while I'll play a new CD without the 8500 and then add it just to see if IT's still there. It usually is. I could live w/o it but choose not to. I 'm not much of a tweaker by nature but am willing to indulge in this case.
Edits: 11/27/14
Nice! Geoff-
any of these products require a re-treatment or touch up over time?
See my post above. Haven't re-treated any of the discs originally treated years ago with AI
or Jena, but see no reason NOT to do so, just need to make the time to do so.
With those two, I see (and probably wouldn't hear) a downside to doing so.
I don't have any more Nanotech, won't pursue it further and am not sure if I'd
treat those treated discs with a different treatment.
I color coded treated CDs with a dot on the face to distinguish which is coated with what, thus eliminating the need for stickers.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
I dunno. Maybe.
Do you know anything about the products you mentioned???
Not really. Only how they sound. I kind of doubt any of the manufacturers explain very much about what's in their product without, you know, giving away the farm.
Edits: 11/27/14
I suspect this is it...meaning why the published blurb above from 8500 is so...unsatisfying. Something else is going on. Whatever goes on is limited to the plastic coating, I assume, so I can't imagine what's involved. Sorry to keep this thread so unsatisfying!
Great stuff. I've been using it for 20+ years. Available at Amazon for only $5.79 for an 8oz bottle.Give it a try and let us know what you think.
And no, haven't compared it to any of the recent crop of overpriced CD treatments lol
Edits: 11/26/14
There is a 30 day money back satisfaction guarantee, if that helps.
Brian
So much music, so little time!
They improve the listening experience for as long as you believe they improve the listening experience. At least that's been my, er, experience
Yes, Brian. Essence of Music did make the rounds on the audio-show circuit this year.
floats your boat.
May I offer you a Q-Tip?
Brian
So much music, so little time!
Thank You! Brian.
this product still appears as a sleeper. I buy tons of used CD(s) and am searching for the best cleaning/polishing product for my needs.
The best of this type product is Liquid Resolution made famous in Clark Johnsen's survey of such esoterica in the epic, Lotions Eleven, published Geez has it been seven years ago in PFO. Sadly the manufacturer Brian Kyle of Liquid Resolution passed earlier in the year. At last count there were perhaps twenty such products, some extinct.
...has done a lot of comparisons of CD treatments.
Be interesting to hear how this one compares to some of the better ones.
posted a lot of comparisons on his experiences with treated CDs.
He hasn't posted in quite a while though.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
Quint, whom I met, hasn't posted in over 3 years.
That thread dates back to 2009.
You wrote: "For the price of the EOM, I'll stick with the two mentioned treatments and less fancy/elegant over packaging targeted at audiophiles with deep pockets."
Does using ladies' perfume spray bottles count as over packaging? The white cardboard box with a printed logo on the lid might cost a dollar or so.
I don't follow your logic, but suit yourself.
Brian
So much music, so little time!
posted a lot of comparisons on his experiences with treated CDs.
He hasn't posted in quite a while though.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
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