|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
206.255.209.123
In Reply to: RE: Please attempt to stay on topic posted by Goober58 on October 20, 2014 at 12:50:22
Moaning about tweeter failures is way off topic.
I'll repeat:
I agree with Mikel et al. The benefits of having a wide bandwith system are beyond simply the ability to reproduce a 20k signal. Phase and transient behavior is better IMHO.
Obviously I'm a proponent of a declining HF response.
I agree with that concept, but only in the choice of output level - NOT the inherent capability of the signal chain. A system that is incapable of reproducing a 20 khz signal will be inferior across the band to one that doesn't share that limitation.
Follow Ups:
Goober58, I think you missed the point of what E-Stat said, when you wrote:
"Ah yes the importance of hearing clipping in all it's glory. "
There is nothing inherent in reproducing a wide bandwidth, i.e., 20 Hz to 20 kHz which has anything to do with clipping.
If something is clipping, that's a flaw in the recording or in the reproduction.
In either case, intentionally limiting ALL of your recordings by rolling off the highs as a means of taming the bright recordings is quite an over-reaction from a sound reproduction standpoint. What about the recording which are a bit dull or "just right"?
I have records and CDs which are too bright, or too bassy. The way I tame them is to adjust the tone controls for those recordings. That's one of the reasons why tone controls were invented - so we can do that.
Clipping is an entirely different issue. It happens when a component is driven into obvious distortion and the peaks are literally chopped off. I mean that distinctly differently from "soft clipping", which is a characteristic of analog tape, and which allows the recording engineer to push the tape harder than it can perform linearly, thus improving SN ratio, but without the obvious artifacts of "hard clipping" which is characteristic of amps, speakers, and digital equipment. Now, if you wish to argue that even tape's "soft clipping" is what you meant, I would challenge you to hear three percent total harmonic distortion of a sine wave on tape. (If you prefer to use a more complex signal which has greater distortion masking ability, that's fine, too.)
The two primary failure modes of speakers are over-excursion and thermal overload. This is assuming the crossover components aren't the weak points.
An amp which is clipping can drive a driver into thermal overload. In other words, it's sending a higher level signal for a longer duration than the driver can take and continue to gracefully dissipate the heat. This results in thermal overload, and parts - typically voice coils and their connections - burn up.
Over-excursion failure happens when the amp tells the driver to "move this far" and the driver can't, thus breaking it. This will happen whether or not the amp is clipping.
There is also the issue of room acoustics. Particularly in a live room (lots of hard surfaces) and speakers with wide dispersion at upper frequencies, it's possible that the owner will think that the speakers are too bright.
Also, with speakers which have fairly narrow dispersion at upper frequencies, it's quite possible for the owner to perceive that the speakers are too bright when sitting within the upper frequency "beam", even though the room may be fairly "dead".
Lastly, it's quite possible that you have especially sensitive upper frequency hearing, or that you have a form of tinnitus which causes sound to sound distorted. Either of these conditions will cause a person to prefer a rolled-off upper frequency curve.
But, in NO case that I can think of can I agree with rolled-off upper FR curve as a matter of course for the general public.
OK, now I gotta warm-up for rehearsal!
:)
"There is nothing inherent in reproducing a wide bandwidth, i.e., 20 Hz to 20 kHz which has anything to do with clipping. "
I beg to differ. Kind of depends on ones selected recordings but I would suggest most high frequency information being reproduced is due to artifacts of the recording not musical content.
To me this seems obvious (its the system that sounds bad), others would chose to dismiss the recording (because it sounds bad).
It's much harder to find a system that sounds great on most recordings - much easier to do if one limits what gets played back. If someone wants to tell me the good stuff doesn't sound as good I'm not going to argue about it - that just isn't as important to me.
So there is no reason a system needs to be flat to 20khz and in truth there may be plenty of reasons why it should not be - as discussed in earlier comments.
I hope this is responsive to your point?
Give me rhythm or give me death!
"or that you have a form of tinnitus which causes sound to sound distorted"
Tinnitus can cause a sound to sound distorted? I didn't know that. Maybe my tweeters aren't shot, and the replacements aren't defective! That bears checking out.
Thanks Inmate 51. You may have solved a problem for me.
There is a difference.Also and I've been very clear about this - tweeter failures because of excessive high frequency energy - not off topic - goes to the sound of the system when borderline operational or dealing with less than ideal recordings. It's a fact of life for many of us.
"I agree with that concept, but only in the choice of output level - NOT the inherent capability of the signal chain. A system that is incapable of reproducing a 20 khz signal will be inferior across the band to one that doesn't share that limitation."
I think I questioned what "goes to" means in my original post to the OP. Down 3, 6, or even 12 db doesn't mean it doesn't go to 20K. It does/can indicate how it sounds when asked to reproduce those frequencies. My point here is that some roll off probably is a good thing if one doesn't have a full and extended bass response.
If ones using good recordings with good high frequencies flat is a good thing. But not all of us do that.
I checked your gear out - you got fantastic full range audio equipment. I'm sure you have the rooms and the recordings to justify it. Consider yourself lucky. I have two great audio systems too (neither one full range) - one in a bedroom and the other in a smaller bedroom.
I listen to all kinds of pop/rock recordings and venture to guess that less than 10% of them have useful energy beyond 15Khz (maybe much less). I'm betting your music collection is considerably different than mine.
That said I'm just trying to help answer the OPs question. And FWIW I haven't blown a driver since the 80s or very early 90 but I'm sure thousands and thousands of others are being blown every year.
Give me rhythm or give me death!
Edits: 10/20/14
Post a Followup:
FAQ |
Post a Message! |
Forgot Password? |
|
||||||||||||||
|
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: