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In Reply to: RE: A list of sonic properties "un-measurable" (or, not easily measured)? posted by genungo on July 28, 2014 at 20:15:20
"Stereo is an auditory illusion created in the mind by the sound streams coming from left and right loudspeakers and by reflections of those sounds in the listening room, and by the room reverberated sounds. Stereo is like a magic trick, an auditory trick that is experienced with closed eyes. If it is well done, then the listener is not aware of the speakers or his room and he has the illusion of a phantom stage in front of him, hearing into a concert hall or having the musicians right there." S. Linkwitz
So Sound stage, for example, is not a property of the playback room or the equipment. It is a property of the recording and production, and most important - your MIND! Sound stage is not real -it is imagined. As it is imagined it by definition cannot be measured.
The ability of you mind to be "fooled" is a property of - in no particular order:
(1) The quality of the system and room acoustics. For most people this bar can be set pretty low. As you gain listening skills the bar raises.
(2) The confidence you have in the system; If you don't believe in the reproductive ability of a system you still might be fooled, but it is less amazing.
(3) Your state of mind while listening; If you are relaxed, you will more easily be moved to the illusion.
(4) the nature of the source material and program. A crappy production that does not present signals in a natural way, like a lot of Frank Sinatra where the band barely appears in the mix and Frank is loud, in front and center.
However,
There are some "subjective" properties attributed to stereo reproduction than can be attributed to measurement. "Clarity", "Detail", "Definition", "Warmness" are relative terms relate to the measured values or the room or equipment performance.
Three most important things in Audio reproduction: Keep the noise levels low, the power high and the room diffuse.
Follow Ups:
Perhaps I should have substituted "aspects" or even "effects" for "properties" in my OP? Words, words, words...As you've stated, the quality of the gear does have something to do with the quality of the soundstage, and there are other physical factors contributing to "soundstaging" too - such as the recording and the room. The sum total of all physical interactions get mixed up and processed in the brain but since the system is essential to our illusions, measurable parameters should be lurking somewhere. My ultimate concern is for that which is *heard*, of course.
We are still learning how to measure.
Edits: 07/29/14 07/29/14
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Three most important things in Audio reproduction: Keep the noise levels low, the power high and the room diffuse.
You don't, you measure the contributing factors.
Only one of the contributing factors - the quality of the signal reproduction can be assessed. And this is likely the least important - based on the diversity of products out there - factor of the four I mentioned.
Think about it, we have rooms that very incredibly - some treated some not - even the treating is different. Then we have Planar Dipole, Line source & Monopole, and Omnidirectional radiators, Satellite and Sub system, Full Range single driver system, two way, 3-way four way and More. Passive and active, near field monitors, even Head Phone listeners. We have those that listen to only stereo, then we have those that listen through 3.1 to 11.2 Channel systems with Synthesized and Directed multichannel signals. SET Amplifier that distort audibly and are preferred to Solid state 1000 Watt Mono blocks - and vice-verse.
I could go on and on. But the point is the equipment and therefore the measurement of the equipment is mostly ancillary to the enjoyment of the listening experience. State of mind, Belief in the System, Decent Source material are far more critical.
Three most important things in Audio reproduction: Keep the noise levels low, the power high and the room diffuse.
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