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In Reply to: RE: Ear vs. Microphone posted by Inmate51 on July 26, 2014 at 14:02:05
Hi and thanks again for the very interesting reply
I can understand that the hearing experience is complex.
But my words have no value.
Instead the words of a famouse designer have.
I notice that you have avoided to give an opinion on Mr. Dunlavy's thinking
He is actually stating that a complete evaluation of a speaker on an instrumental basis is possible.
I also think it is possible.
Not easy but doable. And once you get the right speaker the rest follows.
Just select a good source and decent electronics.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Follow Ups:
Hey Beppe,There wasn't any intention to avoid that - I just didn't comment on it. Must've gotten tired of typing. lol. I happen to have a good deal of respect for the late Mr. Dunlavy.
"" DAL firmly believes that a full set of credible measurements, made by qualified engineering staff using state-of-the-art equipment and facilities, can reliably predict the potential of a loudspeaker to accurately reproduce the complex sounds of music." —Dunlavy Audio Labs "
I agree. But note the use of words like "credible", "qualified", "predict", etc. This is important. He's being quite clear. And, he's not saying NOT to listen to the resulting product design as the ultimate test. Recently, another top designer (in the amplifier and circuitry world) said to me something like "we measure the wrong things" in a brief discussion of why measurements often don't correlate with how a product sounds. My observation is that measurements are essential, and that when a product measures well but sounds like crap, we should find a way to figure out why and devise a test for that. Back in the 1970s, that's exactly what happened with TIM and crossover notch distortion and slew rate and driver compression and "horn sound" and ... :)
A long time ago, I had the opportunity to learn from another now-famous loudspeaker designer, John Meyer (www.meyersound.com). He would run all kinds of tests and measurements, but the ultimate test would always be to listen.
:)
Edits: 07/27/14 07/27/14
Hi and thanks for the explanation
You say that you have been told " "we measure the wrong things"
It is difficult for me to accept this but i have heard similar opinions me too and from famous designers, especially for electronics i wound say.
I am very confused.
For instance one of the big debates is around op-amps.
Many consider them unsuitable for music.
And still some very high end preamps using op-amp do exist.
Two i know of being the MBL 6010d and the Tom Evans The Vibe, and both are op-amps based and measure excellently, and sound also sublime.
I sincerely hope that the confusion is real and not intentional.
And then there are those infamous blind sessions ... where very cheap amps sound on par with much more expansive units, driving same speakers.
I stop. And i thank you very much again for the very interesting advice.
Kind regards,
bg
"He would run all kinds of tests and measurements, but the ultimate test would always be to listen."
Absolutely, gotta close the loop. I've been enjoying your comments, I think trying to clear up some of the foggy thinking that quite a few AA'ers seem to have concerning measurements vs hearing is a good thing.
"when a product measures well but sounds like crap, we should find a way to figure out why and devise a test for that"
That says it all!
It's as though some folks feel that there is some sort of contest between their perceptions and measurements and they want to win. I want a draw! I want the measurements to perfectly predict how much I'll enjoy and approve of the device's performance.
But I'm not holding my breath... shoot I don't even approve of some live performances, especially amplified ones.
Technically I like the work being done focusing on the time domain and local reflections. That's a viewpoint that has been somewhat buried by other issues but now it's time seems to have arrived. Please pardon the pun...
Rick
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