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In Reply to: RE: Wouldn't stop anything. Matter of fact people can do what you suggest but don't. posted by Tony Lauck on July 23, 2014 at 08:34:16
What you say is not in contrast with what i think
Of course listening room is a decisive element, at least for speakers of course
For this i think that measurements should be taken on the whole system in the actual listening environment
But my accent still is on measurements not evaluations by ear
As i said the evidence is in the labs ... they are full of expensive instruments
I suppose they are useful for design and i believe they can be equally useful for testing
Sound in the end is physics
Kind regards,
bg
Follow Ups:
Actually, I quite agree with you with respect to setting up speakers in a real room (at least a small one that isn't so great.) As I've previously posted, I found it just about impossible to set up my Focal near field monitors and sub woofer by ear. There were just too many adjustments that interacted with speaker position, etc... What I ended up doing was to purchase a calibrated microphone and RTA software and measure the bass response at my listening position. After some fine tuning of speaker position and sub woofer adjustments and after dialing in some parametric equalization I was able to get flat response from 30 Hz up to 20 kHz. However, at this point the system still sounded too bright and many recordings were unpleasant or worse. I finally voiced the high frequencies by ear, so that some previous reference recordings sounded natural and the vast majority of my collection sounded neither too bright or too dull. This ended up with a measured response that began to taper off at 2 KHz and was down -3.5 dB at 10 kHz, where it was shelved. (This was about half-way down in the tweeter control for the Focal Twin-6's.).
I am suspicious of both measurements and listening tests, even those that I make myself. I consider it insurance to have a system that measures good and also sounds great. I would be suspicious of a system that sounded great that didn't measure well, because it would only be a matter of time before coming up against recordings where the fault showed up in listening.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Well accurate is a system that gives out amplified a signal similar to the input (sorry for the bad English)
If you take a picture of an old person an accurate picture could be not nice, but it is accurate
If you photoshop it it could be nicer but less accurate, less true to the original
The same applies to sounds for me
I prefer accuracy even if the original is not that nice
Kind regards,
bg
RE: Wouldn't stop anything. Matter of fact people can do what you suggest but don't., posted on July 24, 2014 at 11:05:19
beppe61
Audiophile
Posts: 3054
Joined: January 29, 2004
What you say is not in contrast with what i think
Of course listening room is a decisive element, at least for speakers of course
For this i think that measurements should be taken on the whole system in the actual listening environment
But my accent still is on measurements not evaluations by ear
As i said the evidence is in the labs ... they are full of expensive instruments
I suppose they are useful for design and i believe they can be equally useful for testing
Sound in the end is physics
Kind regards,
bg
**************
Beppster,
You are a perfect candidate for "Music, Physics and Engineering", and "Master Handbook of Acoustics".
Buy both, and read them.
:)
Hi and i would like to have the time
I am distracted by my job ...
But i tell you one story
I was asking if square wave test could be useful to evaluate a driver/speaker behaviour
The answers went from absolutely not to i do not know
Then i mentioned a famous speakers designer who promotes his projects also on the basis of a nice response to square waves and i aked if this designer was wrong.
No more answers. No one. In a technical forum.
This tells me that there is a lot to be learned still.
But also there are people they give opinions without a real understanding of the phenomena
I much prefer a sincere answer like i do not know.
When i read of a speakers designer who evaluate drivers by listening i am not against his procedure, but still i cannot get out of my head the idea that another scientific, objective, reproducible and instrumental method must exist.
As an aside i think that square wave is a very useful tool, even if square waves do not exist in nature.
Kind regards,
bg
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