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In Reply to: RE: Wouldn’t it be great to measure overall system improvement? posted by skinzy on July 21, 2014 at 09:34:32
I did this post after spending some time in the cable forum. That place drives me nuts. Dare not make a comment as not to offend anyone? By the way not an engineer but my dad was a EE and daughter is a ME. I do know how they think!
"A pound of perspiration is equal to an ounce of inspiration"
Follow Ups:
> > > That place drives me nuts.
And I thought that folks had to be nuts to be Inmates.
But I hear you. I'm a science major and computer guy. Cables are cables. I was dumbfounded when I put some skinny little Audience speaker cables in my system after using good 12 gauge stranded wire forever. My buddy whose Sony receiver is better than anything friend, agreed. It was just obvious. I'm not sure it could be measured and it could easily have been explained by lousy insulation and corrosion of the copper wire on the old wire.
I use mostly Canare cables and some Bob Crump ICs and power cables. A Tice power cable gives my preamp a more lush sound. Some components seem to react more than others to changes. Perhaps, those are poorly designed or just finicky. Cables can be tone controls as well, albeit expensive ones.
I do like well made cables though.
-Rod
Don’t feel bad, it is frustrating but the problem is your talking about engineering, how the products are designed and built and what governs how they all work which is at the opposite end of things from the buying and selling of finished goods.
The issue is that our sensory system is a “system” but since we have experienced nothing else but that system, we are unaware how the senses are tied together.
When presented with examples, many audiophiles coil in anger as it suggests their sense are not perfect or “golden”.
For instance, if you have cable TV, look for “brain games” which tonight deals with some of the auditory weirdness including how what you know effects what your senses present to you.
If you don’t have cable TV, here are a couple examples, the first a well known auditory phenomena where what you see over rides what reaches your ears. Wear headphones and concentrate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UzWeZZ9XeQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-lN8vWm3m0
The next one goes a step further, what you hear is not only what you see but also what you know.
Poppy from Dolby labs has a demonstration using song lyrics just a few min into the video but the lead in is interesting too at least for people working in audio like these folks.
With the “knowledge” based hearing demo, this ONLY WORKS ONCE because once you know, you have that knowledge.
Again focus and use headphones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ
Now keep in mind, the demonstrations often make people angry and yet it is at least partly this gap between how our “system” works and how physics work that is why blind tests (comparing two cases without knowing which was which) often gives bewildering results.
Blind testing in audio means only using your ears, an audiology or hearing test only involves only using your ears, any really nearly every kind of testing involves you not knowing what the answer is.
The sales and appreciation of hifi gear by non-engineering people involves knowing the answer is before the question is asked which makes things pretty squishy as the first presenter mentioned.
This is a fascinating area if your keen to look into it.
Thanks I will check this out. Have always been a fan of “perception” and its limits/anomalies as it relates to the visual world. Never thought about how it would apply to audiology. How we know what we know is always interesting!
"A pound of perspiration is equal to an ounce of inspiration"
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