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In Reply to: RE: MBL would be on my short list posted by hifitommy on August 05, 2012 at 15:46:09
Don't like any Wilsons, but Soundlab is at the apex of speakers, and has been for decades!
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if you havent heard wilsons properly demonstrated, you wont like them. i have hard the maxx 2s and 3s at a local dealer and was never satisfied with the sound. however, when the newest Alexandria XLF was presented in a new, larger room, they were exemplary.
were i to judge them on what i had previously heard at that dealer, i would feel the same as you.
...regards...tr
... is that this often turns into an interminable list of excuses where the fans of a particular piece of gear insist that:
1) the "new" model is better or fixed "that problem", or;
2) the setting, set-up, recording played or associated equipment was wrong, and you'll love it when those things are corrected, or;
3) that if all else fails, there was something wrong with the listener.
Ultimately, it turns into a promise that "next time it'll be better". ;-)
There is the practical matter of how many chances should a listener give a particular piece of gear? This is particularly true when a consistent pattern has emerged - a "house sound" to use a phrase.
At some point one simply needs to recognize that a particular manufacturer had a different set of goals in mind that don't line up well with yours.
Or, maybe next time it will be better!
If you know my prior posts you know that that is and always was the argument I made about these manufacturers.
I would say - "they always have an excuse and speakers should be designed to operate in real rooms and hotel rooms are often reasonably typical of people's homes."
So RGA have you changed that view - sorta. Why?
Well if you hear a system in 6 different rooms (two different dealers in 3 rooms, your own home, at a show in two rooms and in every case they sound stunning and world beating - then you go to a show and boom it's maybe 50% of what you always hear then that's a room issue, set-up issue, position issue - something.
One of our writers owns a speaker and loves it but really felt they failed miserably at CAS - different gear - something off on the set-up.
Why the Sorta?
Well I agree with you IF you have heard them in the variety of rooms I mentioned and you disliked them every single time no matter what the gear used.
For example there are speakers that I have heard in numerous settings for 20ish years. SS Tubes - huge power stable to an ohm big room small room positioned by owners dealers the manufacturers and they always leave me somewhat cold.
So they clearly have a different set of goals that don't line up with me.
But if you can see a picture of the Wilson room at CAS - I can't believe that that was their IDEAL set-up. How many homes at the short wall have an emergency exit door? In such cases we have to say - ok the room here is a bit of a disaster so they made do the best they could. Unfortunately when the speakers are $199,000 we're less sympathetic because perhaps subconsciously we expect them to sound like $199,000 which means they have to be orders of magnitude better than say a company like Von Gaylord where people are like "who the hell are they" and they utterly trounced the Wilson room on the discs I brought.
But Von Gaylord had them pretty ideally positioned in a room that was very favourable to their speaker size - Wilson's room was a disaster.
Since I have heard the Sophia sound quite good - I am willing to accept the fanboys who say the big ones are great if you can get them in "fair" room. The fact is few shows or even dealers have the space and room quality that can support massive speakers like that. So how does anyone hear them. Most reviewers are not billionaires - I certainly don't have the room for them - so how do I hear them set-up well? How does anyone who doesn't own them or have rich friends who own them.
So the question is do you hear enough in the WATT or Sophia to perhaps say ok this is quite good and make the leap of faith that the big ones would be considerably better in the right room?
No, the only good Wilson speakers are the Sophia and the Sasha, and both are overpriced. The sound just gets worse as you move up in price (not unusual in my experience as simpler is usually better; compare the Quad 57 to all the "modern" versions The 57 trounces them in the midrange and in transparency. Pay more, get less). The horribly overpriced Wilson and MBL systems are the end result of a wrong turn high end audio made 40 years ago when ss, and then digital were embraced as truly high end. Both sucked from the beginning, and judging from the recent show, they still suck big time!
by experience, the demo being presented doesn't always represent the optimal sound of the speaker. i have gone into demo rooms and heard speakers that i KNEW sounded better than what i was hearing at that time.
the room has such an effect that sometimes it cannot be overcome. this happened to mel schilling when he moved up the street to another location. he never could get the sound right in the new location. he subsequently moved back to pennsylvania from california (i don't know if that was actually the reason for his move).
for this reason, one cannot always judge what they have heard at a show or demo room to be what is actually possible. life isn't simple.
...regards...tr
I'll agree that a single exposure can be deceptive, but the situations I was talking about were those where repeated listening sessions at different places and times give the same results. (What's that old definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.)
For example, I've heard various Martin Logan speakers dozens of times over a lot of years in homes and different stores and have never yet had an encounter that has changed my opinion. Yet, I know a lot of people who love 'em.
At some point, you've heard a product enough that "next time it'll be better" just doesn't cut it.
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