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Much arrogance there from the lazy sellers - (DON'T ASK TO SHIP...etc) Have enough courtesy to OFFER to the buyer that shipping/packing COULD be arranged at the buyers expense... Yeah, I know it's easier when $$$ just walks through your door with not much effort.
PayPal fees?...another issue I don't want to get started on that ;/
“Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead"
― Charles Bukowski
Follow Ups:
It's not wanting to deal with the complicated, unsatisfactory aftermath of any shipping damage.
Did you ship out damaged speakers to defraud?
Will the shipping company admit and cover the damage?
These questions are much worse with non bookshelf speakers and turntables than with other gear - especially without original boxes.
...simply take plenty of pictures of the equipment and send that along w/ the stuff. That way everyone knows what the condition of the gear was in when shipped.
This post seems completely ridiculous to me. Provided that the seller discloses that he will not ship I dont see how anyone could object.
What exactly is your objection to Paypal fees?
And no extra charge for repacking in the original wooden factory crates.Just send me a PM as I don't want to break the rules by listing sales info here. ;^)
"For a nominal service fee,
you can reach nirvana tonight."
Edits: 04/24/12
- you wont make penny, out of me ;)
p.s. agree shipping is (most of the time) pain - even with the original packing material - however I stand with the belief, the PayPal charge to be absolutely wrong. Ten years ago I urged Audiogon not to allow in their classifieds, I am urging AA to do the same.
“Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead"
― Charles Bukowski
.
Do you feel any different?
“Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead"
― Charles Bukowski
Too easy for local con artist to scam you out of your gear.. the latest craze are folks forging money orders (yes even USPS money orders) with an ordinary color printer/scanner; far easier than counterfeiting money. And by the time it's recognized as a forgery they're long gone (with your gear).Maybe not so much for the Audiogon community (more so for ebay) but hey; thats life in the big city and it's only a matter of time...and yes; I'm cynical by nature.
In my case, a local pick up sale is either with paypal (paid of course in advance; fee or not), or cash on the barrel.
And if folks don't like it, well they can just move right along to the next ad.
*Excuse me in advance for latching on to your post in a non-agreeable manner; last time I did that an overly sensitive guy took it way too personal.
v/r
GL
may the bridges I burn light the way....
Edits: 04/24/12 04/24/12
I sold Klipshorns and Martin Logans "Local Only" because of their size. Sales went perfectly.
Then I sold a pair of average size floorstanders and shipped them. I got a call from the buyer that they were damaged in ship.
Never again.
I bought a turntable shipped to me. It was damaged in ship.
Never again.
If not wanting to deal with shippers, claims, disappointed buyers or broken gear makes me lazy then I guess I'm lazy.
I like knowing that someone nearby has my stuff.
Or someone i like has it.
Just selling it cross country and never meeting the stranger is not very much fun.
Selling locally may gain one a new audiophile friend!
In past I traveled 100 miles to pick up pair of speakers...In 25 years I haven't met an 'audiophile.' Even when I lived in Vegas, couple of hifi dealers I dealt with, weren't audiophiles either.
“Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead"
― Charles Bukowski
.
I never allow any audiophiles over, as I have a tendency to kill and eat them. Sorry, just an old bad habit..
My current friends know about my proclivities, and come over well armed..
(8^Q...
LOL!! That was good.
I don't allow strangers of ANY sort into my home. By definition, I don't know who they are, so I don't want them seeing my stuff.
If somebody wants to buy something I have for sale (which is VERY rare, since I don't buy stuff unless I intend to keep it - I'm not a "flipper"), I'll send it to them, or they can see it in the driveway. (btw, I have a telescope for sale - perfect example of checking it out outside.)
But for potential buyers to complain that someone won't ship an item, well, get over it. It ain't yours, and no seller has the duty to do what you want them to do. Geez. (Not aimed at you, Liz. Aimed at the OP.)
However I live in hifi wasteland - the New Orleans is 80 miles.
“Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead"
― Charles Bukowski
What about paypal? As a seller why should I have to accept less money for the goods I'm selling when you as a buyer wish to use a service that charges for the extra security it provides you for using it? It's no different than gas stations which charge a slightly cheaper price when you pay via cash, than by credit card!
People like you are arrogant. You want to tell the seller how they'll be paid and how much they'll be paid and then you get mad at the seller for not wanting to sell to you. When you see and item for sale you either wish to meet the sellers terms or you don't. However if you don't wish to meet their terms that's on YOU, not on them. So if you wish to get angry look in the mirror and get angry with that person...
I'm listening to:
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata)
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
========================================================================
"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils; The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted."
William Shakespeare from The Merchant of Venice; Act V,i
.
If you are selling something it turns away potential buyers if they perceive you are trying to gouge them. Just like you getting angry at the mere idea that you should cover the Paypal fees.
On the other hand they feel good if they think they are getting something for nothing. So, as a seller, if you offer free shipping and no pay pal fees they think they are getting a bargain even if you inflate your asking price a little bit to cover the costs. Say you have something you want to pocket $1,500 for and you figure it will cost $50 to ship and $45 for paypal. Ask $1,695. You can come down a hundred and still get your $1,500.
I've sold hundreds of items that way and usually sold them quickly. Getting on your high horse over a 3% fee that you can recover by raising your price 3% is just plain idiotic. I believe the phrase is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
.
Many of us believe that PayPal is primarily for the seller's convenience. I simply won't respond to an ad that demands that I, as a buyer, must pay the fee. Nor will I deal with a gas station that charges more to card users. Nor ANY merchant who thinks Visa, MasterCard, etc. charges are my responsibility to pay. And yeah, I'm consistent -- won't charge anyone a PayPal fee for buying from me. My stuff sells fast.
Not surprising, as there are MANY things in life where two people can look at the exact same thing and have a different reaction. Many of us believe that Paypal is primarily for the buyer's convenience, just as many of you seem to think it's for the seller's convenience.
Personally, as a seller, I'd much rather receive a money order, or cash for local sale then to deal with Paypal. I accept Paypal as a favor for the buyer. I have bought and sold using Paypal and not using Paypal.
Generally I start an ad with the buyer paying for shipping and Paypal and then reach a final sale price through negotiations. Some stuff sells fast, some doesn't. I could sell all of my stuff very fast if I wanted to. I find that patience is a virtue, as a buyer and a seller.
Maybe the fairest solution is to split the fee. If people are turned off by asking the buyer to cover Paypal fees, so what? Pay with a money order or don't buy, who cares? Some buyer's are turned off by the seller's refusal to ship. Don't buy it then, someone else will. In the end, everything gets bought and sold.
I had a spare tonearm that I wasn't even thinking of selling until I saw one on AgoN. It was priced about right, but the seller wanted $35 for shipping (seems a bit much for an item that can be mailed) and 4% for PayPal. Two strikes against him in the eyes of a buyer.
So, I listed mine for $50 more than the price of his, but with FREE SHIPPING and NO FEE FOR PAYPAL !!!
Mine sold in 30 minutes.
Sometimes its not about the money ...its about feeling you were treated well and given a good deal ...even if it costs extra.
Personally, I like in-person deals. The buyer gets to check the stuff out, gets to listen to it, I get cash and we both get to talk audio for however long the buyer can tolerate me. "geraldm121" and I can easily kill an hour every time we do a deal.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
I find cash-n-carry are the best deals too. They are adventures in audio, not just buying gadgets.
I find your marketing technique interesting. I believe I've tried it before, but in my case received no response, as I recall. I may have to try it again sometime on another item.
Cheers,
John
Certainly the owners of PayPal (aka, eBay) don't believe it's for the "buyer's convenience" or they wouldn't forbid eBay sellers to palm off PayPal fees on the buyer. And some of us sellers would much rather have the, yes, convenience of avoiding a trip to the bank or post office to cash a money order. Especially with the price of gas today.
Cash, on the other hand, is always welcome :-)
....whatever it might be or whatever you are willing to pay. And the willing to pay part would probably be more than you really are willing to pay.
Get over yourself. The item belongs to HIM at this point. Not YOU. If he can take it to the landfill by choice, he can sit on it and wait for a local buyer, by CHOICE. It's HIS choice, not YOURS.
Some people............
Oz
Don't worry about avoiding temptation. As you grow older, it will avoid you.
- Winston Churchill
Personally, I prefer to sell my gear locally for several reasons, none of which I would consider lazy. First, I don't have to worry about the possibility of damage in-transit and the hassle of a claim. Second, the buyer gets to eyeball the item and check for any defects on the spot. Third, you sometimes get to meet fellow audiophiles who normally aren't in your circle of friends.
And some items are just too large to ship. I've got a pair of DAL SC-IV's. They're six feet tall and weigh about 180 pounds. I wouldn't be able to ship those even if I wanted to.
"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)
> > And some items are just too large to ship. I've got a pair of DAL SC-IV's. They're six feet tall and weigh about 180 pounds. I wouldn't be able to ship those even if I wanted to.
Sorry, but that's just not true. Very few things are too large to ship. You can ship most anything. It might not be at the price you want, but it certainly isn't impossible.
There is a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in.
—Leonard Cohen
Hence, the word "I" used in the last sentence.
"Man, that mouse is Awesome." - Kaemon (referring to Jerry, of Tom and Jerry fame)
If the seller does not want to incur the risk, they do not have to offer the "courtesy" of packing and shipping at the buyers expense.
In an offer to sell, the seller makes the rules, not the buyer.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
I too find that quite annoying. There were a couple of pairs of speakers I wanted to buy in the last 3 years and the seller wannted me to come to his home. I live in New England and he lived in California, the other guy was in Wyoming. I would have to take a couple of weeks off from work to drive out there to get them! Certainly not worth my time or effort. I ended up buying a large pair of floor standing speakers from a guy in Austin Texas and he was only too happy to ship. Fedex delivered them cheerfully to my doorstep and they were over a hundred pounds each. They arrived in perfect condition.
I can see not wanting to ship a large piece of furniture or a turntable, but speakers and electronics, come on! BTW, I NEVER charge a Paypal fee as that is my preferred method of getting paid. How would one feel if they bought something in Best Buy and were told there was going to be a 3% surcharge because they were using a credit card to pay for the items?
I throw my windows open wide and call to you across the sky.
When I sell I never charge a PayPal fee, shipping is usually included in my price if the item is under 50 lbs. and I once sent a pair of B&W 801 Matrix 3s from CT to Ontario. (*)The only point I was trying to make is sellers can attempt to sell in any way they wish. As a buyer, if you don't like the stipulations ...don't whine about it ...just forget about it.
I recently asked a guy selling a pair of Snell CV (advertised as "will not ship") if he would ship if I paid all expenses and assumed all risk. He said no. Apparently he had played that game once before, the speakers got wrecked and the buyer, rather than pursuing an insurance claim, simply filed a PayPal claim. The seller lost the claim and his speakers (which were trashed) were returned to him. This after the buyer said he would assume all risk.
Maybe he could have taken additional steps to protect himself. But he didn't and now he'd rather never go there again. Can't say as I blame him.
I understood his point and thanked him for his time. As the seller, he has every right to control the stipulations of the sale.
Dean.
Edits for spelllllingg.
(*) In my own packing. What a PITA.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
Edits: 04/22/12 04/22/12 04/22/12
nt
“Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead"
― Charles Bukowski
In the last ten years, I've sold two sets of large loudspeakers locally that I refused to ship. It worked out well for everyone. If someone is refusing to ship an item, its probably because they had a bad experience or two.
"Much arrogance there from the lazy sellers"
Have you sold much in the last couple of years? I think the poor economy and the resulting buyer's market has caused many bottoming-feeding cheapskates into arrogant jerks who want everything for nothing. If buyers want service, they can always go out and buy it new from a dealer and pay for it. As far as paypal, payment terms can be be arranged where everyone is happy.
Lots of reasons people don't want to ship. A really good one is that someone may be too old or has been injured. But there doesn't need to be ANY reason. The seller chooses his method and if "someone" doesn't like it, move on.
It's sad that it would cause "someone" pain but if venting here helps in the therapy, fine.
There are intelligent ways of dealing with this. Awhile back a guy wanted my pair of Apogee Duetta Sigs. I didn't have a "no shipping" clause but he wanted to send a transportation company to my house to pick up/box/load and deliver. It doesn't get any easier than that. Even if I had a "no ship" policy. Oh, and he sent the money in advance.
I think you can convince any seller to ship. Of course there are "those" buyers who would want the seller to pay for everything.
I totally agree. Then these arrogant jerks get upset and start a thread to complain. I'm sure that Eldragon could get the seller to ship if he threw enough money at him. Everyone has a price.
I've turned a "non-shipper" into a "shipper", but it doesn't come cheaply. You can either pay the (wo)man and buy the toy, or sit around and whine about it. Your choice.
...you know jack-shit about my buying/selling ethics - but ALL you have to do check my current ratings here, Audiogon and e-bay. Another thing is 'this ignorant jerk' doesn't ask for the PayPal fees the way most of you whiney pussies do.
“Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead"
― Charles Bukowski
I surely can't understand why ANY seller would not bend over backwards for someone as charming as you my friend. ;)
...you can't understand.
“Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead"
― Charles Bukowski
I made the point a number of times about sellers who indicate that they don't ship being PITA.
Large speakers are the one thing I can understand being leery about shipping though.
...items like turntables correctly?
I find it a PITA that Audiogon lost it's zip code search feature in their changeover. That was a great feature, I've tried to encourage Rod to add it here. Nothing like looking for something close by to audition. Cash-n-carry is my favorite transaction as a buyer AND a seller.
"I find it a PITA that Audiogon lost it's zip code search feature in their changeover. That was a great feature.."
I agree.
.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
You can search by seller now....and zip.
I just tried hitting the search button and the only categories I was shown were price and time, even after I signed in.
...go to "Member Lookup" and fill in the seller's user ID. That will bring you to several tabs, one of which is their items for sale.
Dean.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
Thanks. I tried that and I see that feature is back, which is a good thing I suppose. But I'd have to know the seller's moniker ahead of time, that's kind of unlikely.
It still doesn't work in the forum section, which is disturbing. If someone in the forums was talking about buying/selling, you could click on their moniker and find out what they had for sale. You can't do that anymore either.
It's the zip code search feature that I miss most.
BTW Dean, Your posts above make entirely too much sense to be in this thread. See what you can do about that. ;)
Cheers,
John
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reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
.
reelsmith's axiom: Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
In My computer all I have to do is Highlight the ZIP in the ad, then left click, and I then have a "Map with Bing?" option. I only use it now when I really am curious to know where the seller is shipping from. Yah I know not as convenient as before but it works.
On Audiogon? I just tried that, it didn't work for me.
.
Short’s the best position they is. Bullet in the Brain
Because local sales are popular, especially with heavy speakers. There is more to shipping speakers that weigh over 100 pounds each than just shipping costs. I can't see the seller having a problem if the buyer is willing to pay for a moving company to come over to the the seller's house and pick them up though.
The excessive cost of shipping large items is only one half of the equation. Have you noticed how carefully and secure gear is packed when it comes directly from the mfg?
Last year I sold a very expensive TT, arm and cartridge to an out of state buyer. Upon receiving the TT, the buyer reported that it had arrived severely damaged.
Fortunately, I had FedEx do the packaging while I observed and also took photos of it before it was shipped. The buyer, who payed for the packaging and shipping had the item fully insured, thank G-d.
I prefer not to ship a very heavy item because of the potential risks involved. When possible I prefer to have the buyer first see the component before finalizing the sale.
BTW, A'gon always lists the zip code of the items location.
As I had mentioned in an earlier post, I sold an expensive amp to a buyer in Arizona. The buyer had his wife drive to LA to pick it up. I would do the same for a very expensive piece of equipment. Why take a chance when spending Big $s.
Realize this would not be for everyone.
Look don't pretend you have not seen many adverts for smaller components where original packaging is listed, but the seller refuses to ship.
On sites that are national or international even, it is quite annoying.
Maybe sites should have separate section for those who want local sales indicating right at the outset where the item is located.
Dude, it's a free market. You can't force someone to ship you something anymore than you can force someone to sell you something if they don't want to. I have a friend with a Klyne phono stage that I want. I'm not going to lay on the floor and have a temper tantrum because he won't sell it to me. Sheesh, get a life.
You handle frustration better than I do, that's all...
BTW where did I mention forcing anyone to do anything?
Your comment about the seller refusing to ship, even lighter items. I took that as if you were implying that he HAD to ship. A seller, or buyer can do anything they want.
I see you live in Canada, I do notice that a LOT of sellers on the Canuck Audio Mart do not want to ship. I could see that becoming frustrating. I did talk one of them Canuck sellers into shipping something to me here in the States, but it wasn't easy....or cheap. I find that if you want something bad enough, and offer enough money...people will ship, even if it's against their wishes.
they are hoping for a local buyer it seems. with large speakers this seems reasonable, packaging them right might be a multi-hundred $$ project, and shipping them a major hassle with the attendent risk on the shipper.
i would not mind those type of ads if they put the location in the title, and state right up front that they are not interested in shipping.
-andre d
Have to agree the ones who do not list location, expecting interested buyers to have to email asking where the heck the item is located is dumb.
Otherwise no problem.
I have purchased/sold plenty of local (at least close enough for a couple hour drive to pick up or deliver)
Always items very heavy or bulky and a shipping problem.
I guess the op just is annoyed he cannot get the item.. So tantalizing yet so far away..LOL
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