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24.9.18.116
I'm sitting in the basement listening to my Office system comprised of a Yamaha 797 receiver and two small Dynaudio bookshelves(@$2,000). It lacks the inner bloom of the Dynaudio Contours floorstanders upstairs, and the Yamaha dooesn't have the balls and clarity the BAT/Gamut system has, yet it sounds great! So I wonder where's the crossover point for you from mid-fi to Hi-Fi?Both systems are fed by a Sonos system using lossless FLAC compression and are listed under inmate systems
Edits: 10/17/10 10/17/10Follow Ups:
When well recorded acoustic music in real space starts to sound real. Otherwise its midfi or worse, regardless of the price.
The only crossover point I know that is accurate is when your listening to a system no matter what the cost , the brand, New or pre-owned ,tube or SS,analog or digital, dynamic or planar's, horns or electrostat's . The point it change's is when your EARS say you hit the Hi-Fi mark , The point where you sit back and close your eyes wondering who brought the jazz band into your living room or you swear Rickie Lee Jones is sitting on a stool 8 feet away from you. A bass drum kick that goes through you followed by the soft decay of a Sabian cymbal. All this in the most comfortable chair you could locate to melt into while enjoying the music. I am of course still working on achieving "Higher-Fi" ,I think this whole hobby is an on going process which I enjoy every step of the way. Plus it's kind of fun to see your buddy scratching his head wondering how all that sound is coming from something that's an inch and a half thick !
A cynical answer based on observing AA:
- If you have to apologize for gear on AA, it's mid-fi.
- If you can brag about owning it here, it's high-end.
- If you don't have to be ashamed of gear but you don't get any points for owning it, it's just Hi-Fi.
> yet it sounds great!
Then for you, it's Hi-Fi.
Bill
BTW, Old listener, I got that L'estro armonico recording of Haydn symphonies you recommended (the one with the Farewell and 59) and I'm afraid it wasn't to my taste, although the slow mvt of the Farewell is certainly a special performance (I mean that in a good way).
> Ha ha ha - great response
Personal experience, I'm afraid. I don't have much gear that I can brag about on AA.
> I got that L'estro armonico recording of Haydn symphonies you recommended
> (the one with the Farewell and 59) and I'm afraid it wasn't to my taste,
Sorry. Nothing wrong with a difference in taste. Have you found performances of Symphonies 39, 45 and 59 that are to your taste?
Your post provided an excuse for me to listen to 39. Always a good thing.
Bill
First time I've heard 39, so thanks for helping introduce the piece to me. The 45 I like has Adam Fischer conducting his orchestra in a passionate, gripping performance - which is totally ruined by the usual abysmal Nimbus sound engineering. So I can't recommend that CD, which is unfortunate. One classical era CD that I'll recommend to you is Pletnev playing and conducting Mozart's 9th & 20th concerti. Not sure if you're boycotting Pletnev due to the recent scandal but his 9th is actually better than the Schiff/Vegh version (also very good) and the recorded sound is demo quality with a slightly HIP approach. Powerful slow mvt.
So if no "inner bloom, balls, and clarity", I'd say not Hi.
It depends where the crossover is to me.
If the crossover is after the amp it's mid-fi and if the crossover is before the amps it is hi-fi.
(Note: This is somewhat of an over simplification!)
I find this topic unuseful
"What did the Romans ever do for us?"
yours sounded just as good; only later to learn he paid 1/2 of what you did on yours.
"You don't have to be faster than the lion....
just the guy running next to you.." -anonymous
.
Ever tried Buckfast?
I have not tried Buckfast, but now I just might! I didn't think there was a better drink for the neurotic sociopath than Thunderbird... uh-oh - excuse me while I swat these damn wine flies that keep encircling my head.
If you're not a neurotic sociopath already a couple of bottles of Buckfast would certainly get you there… or even further!Couldn't you train that pink elephant to swat the flies for you?
Edits: 10/18/10
I don't drink so I'm not familiar with that beverage ....What the hell is Buckfast ?? Some sort of Hillbilly liquor ? ? Now take it easy and just kick back on your porch , turn up the Bose wave music system and enjoy !
Made by english monks on weekdays, laying waste to Scotland on Saturdays.
See the link in a previous post by me but essentially it is like Thunderbird but with large amounts of caffeine added.
That sounds like wonderful stuff , I can only imagine what one must feel like waking up the morning after a night of drinking that concoction.
I think a hangover from Buckfast might make you feel as if you had slept with the wrong person all night long. You know the kind I'm talking about: grates their teeth all night long, smelly, won't stop hogging the blankets, has restless leg syndrome, etc... Just be thankful it's not Monday morning yet.
I don't know if this link works outside the UK but if it does scroll forward to 43:15 to find out more about the stuff and its effects.
nt
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
When nobody you see on a regular basis recognizes any of the brand names on your equipment and when you can describe your free time activities as "just listening to music."
:-)
.
Share a bowl of grits with someone you love tonight.
It's the value system of the buyer & owner.
It's when:
When a buyer put "sound quality" as primary requirement and this means more than "plays loud" and "thumping bass".
When you start googling blogs & message boards for advice and these are not about interior decoration.
You don't using advice from
* airplane magazines.
* lifestyle magazines
* best buy
If you bought (non-Bose) earphones > $60 for your iPod, that's hi-fi attitude.
Well, at least when you can hear more than an eentsy weentsy difference.
Although I like the explanation of when the system throws a suitable three-diminsional image ;-)
I have:
Magnepan 3.6
Bryston 4B-SST2
Bryston PB26
Bryston phono 1.5
Rega P5 with Benz Glider
Kuzma Stogi S with Dynavector 17D3
Various 5 disc CD with Adcom DA700 DAC through my 'tube buffer' VAC Standard.
And I consider my stuff Mid-Fi. It plays music, but does not wash the dishes.
It sounds very good, but it is nowhere near state of the art, and THAT state of the art (or nearly state of the art) is HiFi IMO
Like my Lp collection is 'good' at 6,000 pretty good recordings, not great nor spectacular.
Ditto CDs.
Better to: "Walk softly and carry a big stick" than think one has some great $hit and be seen with the Emperors new clothes.
For some it's as simple as the brand name. Several years ago I was in a (very) high end shop in a Chicago suburb when another customer walked in and spied a pair of Denon POA-6600 mono-block amps sitting on the floor (The amps had been brought in for consignment sale.). These are pretty damn fine performers, but this chap recoiled in horror as though he feared contracting a case of the clap, and said, "Isn't that mid-fi?" Of course, he had never heard the Denons, but refused a listen, largely, I think, because he was afraid he might actually find the amps enjoyable. Ah, well, that's the world of audiophiles...
By the way I think your issue is one of those "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" things that has no meaningful answer.
nt
There is NO substitute for the live performance.
You got that right! I upgraded to Yamaha, it's not HI-Fi, I can't beleive anyone answered this thread, I posted about my Yamaha system, nobody responded. I "Listen" to music for "Pleasure", Cheers!
Vista Ultimate 64 bit/e5300 Intel 45nm cpu/ASRock G41M-LE/VIA HD Audio 7.1 channel/YamahaRX-V465 HT receiver/ Infinity RS1001 & Cambridge SoundWorks speakers/Yamaha YST-SW216 subwolf
It isn't?
At least a couple of decades ago they had some very good sounding stuff.
But not everything, I still have my now ancient DX-7 synthesizer and let me tell you that thing redefines lo-fi. At least in a way, on the other hand it still sounds as much like itself as it ever did...
However I sold my RD-400 a few years ago and miss it's sound, but I was afraid I'd kill myself as my reflexes ain't what they used to be.
Rick
Lo-Fi, Mid-Fi, Hi-Fi It's all a bunch of BS. You can't put an exact dollar amount on it. All that matters is you like it.
...is mid fi. Anything over $3500 is hi fi. Anything over $7499.00 is ultra hi fi. Read it. Learn it. Live it.
and what they have for a system. The "best" ones in the group are "hi fi" the next few are "mid fi", and the rest are whatever. It's a comparative thing, at best. I think it's a nonsense term with no real value or meaning. If it sounds decent to your ears it's "hifi".
Just my opinion...
...9 different posters below, 9 different opinions. ;-)
Yah, but one of the opinions was mine, so only eight of them were right.
So far anyway .............
Yhe mid-fi doesn't sound bad ,and gives you a good sense of the overall sound of the music.
When you get into the higf end ,you start hearing more detail,wieght,and control.You also get better imeging ,and deeper,but not loose,bass.
There are probably some things I missed ,but those are the things that come to mind.
enjoy,
mark
Nobody is into midfi gear as a hobby, or runs google searches on "midfi" component reviews, or seeks specifically "midfi" designed products. No such thing. "Midfi" is what hifi folks call the average consumer masses. The average consumers do not call their own setups "midfi" or even realize what that term is.Just because someone with hifi awareness, decides to borrow from the midfi products here and there, does not do anything to blur the distinctions. The system would be a "compromise", but hifi would still be a hobby, and midfi would still not be.
Edits: 10/17/10 10/17/10 10/17/10 10/17/10 10/17/10
I guess I'd say, as Justice Potter Stewart did of pornography, that I know it when I see it. Or hear it, as the case may be.
What it doesn't have much to do with in my experience is price. There have been hi fi components that cost very little -- the Dynaco amplifiers of yore, say -- and there are mid fi components that can break the bank, e.g., very expensive home theater setups that don't sound very good.
From a manufacturer's perspective, I think it has a lot to do with the level of components that can be afforded. But it also has to do with design skill and philosophy, e.g., much mid fi equipment is designed to appeal to the sort of uncritical listener who is impressed by the likes of boomy bass.
It crosses over only with what you consider Mid-Fi or Hi-Fi. Not at all what a magazine or some guy in a funky suit with a ponytail tells you you should think ! I consider my system to be Mid-Fi in terms of dollars spent only , the sound I get out of the pieces I ended up purchasing blow away a lot of the gear I have seen in different places, costing many times more than I have spent. Just go by what your ears tell you and that to me is the real test, as to what's "Hi-Fi". Also ignore the WAF, If I had listened to her there wouldn't be a pair of Magnepan 1.6's taking up space in my family room.
This is my arbitrary dividing line.
Cheap can be better than mid fi. Some very expensive rigs can sound pretty awful.
Even a cheap system can resolve soundstage depth (on recordings where present) IF it's properly set up (ie. not crammed against a wall with a sofa in front of it). All summer I listened to my cheapo outdoor system: some DIY speakers into which I had approx. $100, driven by a late-'70s Rat Shack receiver, with a $39 Daewoo DVD player for a source. Set up for nearfield listening, with no nearby reflecting boundaries, this threw a WAY deep and 3D soundstage, with precise lateral imaging and front-to-back layering.
nt
nt
lol
Maybe if you spoke in terms of enjoyment of a musical experience instead of equipment pigeon holes this might be a discussion worth pursuing.
My two systems have been in boxes for a year and half now because of the complications in getting this old house redone. I listen to a system that consists of a cheap Sony CD player, an old Luxman T-100 tuner, the crappiest Scott integrated ever made and a pair of small Mission speakers.
Sometimes I still fall into the music and sometimes with either one of the other two systems the magic did not work.
It's more the listener and his mood than the equipment.
So I don't really care where you draw that line.
> My two systems have been in boxes for a year and half now because of the complications in getting this old house redone <
LOL, I'm glad to know it's not just me. (Should be done in a few weeks now -- the problem is, I've been convinced of that for months.)
... = Sound that takes you beyond the level of mere satisfaction, making you feel really excited about the hobby. However, as you grow and mature the bars that mark the levels called "satisfaction" or "excitation" can seem to move either upward or downward.
Edits: 10/17/10
Makes you feel excited about the hobby. Is music any part of that hobby?
That goes without saying.
If it's high-end, it probably gets demo'd with some light and jazzy tunes, or maybe Pink Floyd's DSOM or Dire Strait's Brothers in Arms. You may need to make an appointment for the honor of standing in the same room with them. The room lights shall be tungsten/halogen and will be dimmable. High end shops do not employ salespeople: They have "consultants", who may have a college education and can possibly hold their own in discussions about upscale automobiles, coffees and maybe wines as well. Often the product will bear the "Made in USA" label. This is very important, because we pay our Mexicans better.
Depends on how you define it.
Me -
My nice car stereo, NAD/EPOS combo in the gym and my walkman/IPOD stuff play about 1/2 my music well enough for me to enjoy them. I consider this stuff midfi.
My two better systems play all my music well enough for me to enjoy them so I consider them hifi.
BTW - I consider "my music" any music I am interested in listening to and it covers most if not all genres of music.
Some people count dollars spent. Some need obscure or boutique brands. Other want a custom modification or two.
Some people may even listen to music in deciding what they think about a system.
Why worry about someone else's classification scheme? Yours is the only one that counts for you.
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