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Yesterday my father and I attended the Axpona/ Stereophile show in Jacksonville.
We walked, talked and listened for about 9hrs and were able to see everything (we think). So bear with me as I try to give my impressions of the experience. No pictures though. If you want to see something I mentioned, I am sure many of the professional sites will have pics (I saw pros from several print and online mags in attendance- and most were snapping pics).
The show was held in the Wyndham Hotel, located at the Jacksonville Riverwalk. Exhibit and demo rooms were on 3 floors. The majority of exhibits were on the main floor in many of the larger conference and attendance rooms.
Several shared observations:
Many of the systems were too large for the rooms- overbearing low bass and boomy mid bass being the most offensive characteristics we heard. My father stated that many of these systems sounded muffled or were lacking snap. Probably related to the overwhelming bass ? I understand the desire of a company or rep to exhibit their best products, but if the environment will not be suitable why create a situation where negative experiences are possible ? Many of the rooms we did like were either larger, or contained equipment that was smaller in scale to better couple to the limited space.
Most of the systems that we felt sounded good were SET based. I liked their vocal reproduction, he liked their reproduction of acoustic instruments, particularly the piano. We both agreed that there was an ease of reproduction and harmonic “correctness” that made these systems non fatiguing to listen to. Most of the SET amps were well matched to other components in use, so there was no sense of dynamic restriction or response anomalies that could have been arisen with less carefully chosen equipment.
Insipid musical choices. While many of the reps offered to play whatever we brought, or wanted to hear, the default options were standard inoffensive audiophile fare. I hope Jacintha has figured out a way to receive royalties from Hi Fi shows….
Vinyl, and Computer based source components were more prevalent than we expected. Both are fine from my point of view. On the digital front, we heard plenty of 16/44 redbook but very few Hi-Rez formats.
Reps and industry professionals were very approachable and willing to talk. We got into conversations with the Kevin Hays (VAC) concerning the sonic signature of supposedly unmeasurable differences, and the designer of Argento Audio cables concerning cable and connector construction, skin effect and other issues that supposedly can’t but often do affect the resulting sound. Of particular note was an extended period of time spent in the Music Hall room, with Roy Gandy and later John Atkinson. Mr. Gandy was very kind to share with me a sip from his now famous show stash of single malt scotches. Mr. Atkinson was gracious and seemed genuinely interested in listening to what we had to say.
We were surprised at how uncrowded it was. Then again, our frames of reference were shows held long ago in NYC, where you were packed in like sardine cans moving from room to room. At no time during the Jville show did we feel crowded or rushed. Very often we were able to sit in the “sweet spot” or close for several min at time. It was easy to talk to the reps and ask questions. The overall atmosphere was very relaxed.
From there we diverged- my father was very sensitive to 2 issues. He felt that many of the demos sounded muffled (see above), as if the equipment was straining to present the music. Intertwined with this was a sense that many speakers were not good at transient response- leading edges of percussion, strings and brass were dulled somewhat. I heard this as well, but was not really focusing on it.
I was sensitive to vocal rendition and soundstage. Boomy bass tended to muddle vocals and obscure soundstage development., so systems that exhibited these characteristics lacked appeal.
I do not have a best of show, but my father and I both agreed that 2 rooms sounded better than most of the others:
VAC- using VAC Phi 200 Monoblocks, Signature MK-IIA Preamp and King Sound Electrostatics. Wonderful ease of projecting real music. Vocals were lifelike, treble was clean and extended while bass was there in abundance when needed. Stats stand about 6.5ft tall with self-contained crossovers. In conversation with the rep, my father asked about crossover customization and the ability to bi or tri wire. Rep stated that crossover and connections are as delivered by the factory. They prefer to keep variables and options to a min- to rule out potential causes of misuse and reasons for performance issues. I can see how this would both appeal to and turn off potential clients, but the sound was stellar.
Legacy Audio Room- Largest Legacy speakers, Accuphase CD player, but I didn’t note what amps were used. As good as the VAC room, but different. The speakers delivered a very realistic soundstage, with natural vocals and harmonics. I could listen to this system for a long time- both relaxing and engaging. My father commented that the system conveighed transient response very well- initial pluck of a string or strike of a piano key was reproduced extremely well. While we were in the room, the large system was being auditioned for Michael Fremer and another gentleman from the industry press, using Mr. Fremer’s mix CD. Music choices were wide ranging but thankfully free of the pabulum used in most of the rooms. I stayed long enough to hear 4 cuts- Hollies/Sandie; La’s/ There She Goes; Art Blakey/ Night in Tunisia; Art Pepper- unknown title. Each track was reproduced with excellent clarity and ease of presentation. Even in show conditions, I could hear subtle details and get a sense of the space in which the music was recorded.
If I had the cash and space, I could happily live with either system.
2 other rooms stood out for me:
Nightengale Audio- triode push pull and SET amps with their own speakers. Excellent reproduction of brass and vocals, with nice clean bass. I particularly enjoyed listening to a trumpet player through this system- I got a real sense of air through the horn, valves opening and closing, then sound emerging from the bell of the horn. Great sound.
Madisound- Seas Loki II Coax Kit speakers driven by a TEAC desktop system. Great transient response, realistic vocals, smooth treble, and great imaging (on axis due to coax design) along with surprising bass response. $600 per pair, as a kit. There were 4 TEAC desktop systems visible in the room. The rep made a deliberate decision to bring “mid-fi” source components because he wanted to give listeners an idea of how their speakers would sound connected to real world equipment. Smart man. Stereophile included a picture of the Madisound room in their coverage of the show. The Coax speaker is the one closest to the end table.
Observing the attendees was interesting. Majority were middle aged white men as expected. However there were more women in attendance than I expected. Many of the women seemed to be as engaged as the men they were with- several asked to hear specific CDs. Fair number of under 40-45 yr old attendees, which I took to be a good sign.
I asked several vendors and company reps for their impressions of the show. Most said it was fair to ok from a traffic and PR standpoint. But as a first show, most couldn’t compare to anything else. Some felt it was similar to the Rocky Mtn show in it’s first few years.
Upon reflection, the overall experience reinforced the basic quality of my current system. Many of the demos that I preferred sounded like bigger and more refined versions of my system. The basics or raw material were the same but the better systems could express more of the qualities of what I like. Given the prices of most of the components I heard, this is definitely a diminishing returns proposition, but I began to sense how incremental component improvements positively affect the sonic result. I am both satisfied and not satisfied with what I have because I know what my system does well, but can also see where there is room for improvement.
I hope that this show comes back to the area, or at least stays in my region so we can still attend. We had an excellent experience and thought the show was well run (from what we could see).
Best,
Ross
Follow Ups:
> Of particular note was an extended period of time spent in the Music Hall room, with
> Roy [Hall] and later John Atkinson. Mr. [Hall] was very kind to share with me a sip
> from his now famous show stash of single malt scotches. Mr. Atkinson was gracious
> and seemed genuinely interested in listening to what we had to say.
I was. Stereophile's readers are the reason I have a job and I try always to be
accessible to them - see the linked photo.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
The show was lightly attended and there was ample opportunity to listen to nearly everything. The most interesting speakers were the King Sound electrostatics, AIX records demonstration using Thiel CS 3.7s, Klipsch Heresy (!) and the Madisound kits. The rather poor room acoustics of the venue did great harm to many of the exhibitors. Many (most?) of the systems had the speakers far too widely spaced producing a "hole in the middle" and indistinct imaging. Lumpy bass and straining small woofers attempting to fill the larger rooms with clean sound abounded. Most of the rooms welcomed attendee music and more than a few used refreshing offbeat material compared to some other shows. It still must be said though that demonstating speakers in public with "audiophile approved" records should be barred by law.
The electronics stressed tubes and vinyl playback with only a few demonstrators such Emotiva and Genelec even offering home theater equipment. Prices generally ranged from high to absurd with Emotiva deserving credit for trying to show that good sound can still be had in electronics at a reasonable cost. BluRay was virtually absent and chrome (amps, preamps, and even turntables) was everywhere!
Overall, a good first show and fine effort in this tough economy. Many thanks to Stereophile and the exhibitors for making it such a pleasant experience.
We were surprised at how uncrowded it was. Then again, our frames of reference were shows held long ago in NYC, where you were packed in like sardine cans moving from room to room. At no time during the Jville show did we feel crowded or rushed. Very often we were able to sit in the “sweet spot” or close for several min at time. It was easy to talk to the reps and ask questions. The overall atmosphere was very relaxed.
Sweet. Let's hope it stays that way. The NYC shows were most unpleasant. It made waiting in line for the Joseph Audio demos do-able- you weren't going to get a decent audition in most of the other rooms, most of the time. I haven't been to CES since they moved from Alexis Park.
Life's too short for Sardine Can hifi shows.
Bass is supposed to sound big. 6.5" is not a woofer size.
The idea that a lightly attended show is somehow a good thing is pretty naive. Exhibitors pay a lot of money to attend these things and rightfully expect something in return. Of course it is great for the few people attending a slow moving show because the exhibitors will naturally devote all their time to those few people that are there. But all this really means is that the chances of exhibitors returning to that show next year get much slimmer.
I've been to shows as a consumer, an exhibitor, and a reviewer. How about you? A more modest crowd allows the business to take place, and real demonstrations to be performed. When it's overcrowded it doesn't benefit the exhibitors, as they become inundated with consumers, the background noise and volume levels go through the roof, and nobody can focus either on potential dealers or on putting on a solid demo. Naturally a ghost town is undesireable, but being ludicrously packed is even worse.
But hey, if you think more is always better, go stand in line at the mall food court. I'm sure the businesses THERE would agree with you.
Bass is supposed to sound big. 6.5" is not a woofer size.
I've been to more shows than I care to count. Every CES since 1981 and exhibited at every CES since 1992. CEDIA, RMAF, Montreal, you name it, I've been there. I stand by what I said. A lightly attended show will be one that doesn't exist for very long, and for obvious reasons. Yes, shows can be a hassle for attendees when they are overcrowded. But I can assure you that these days, show promoters and exhibitors would love to have that as their biggest problem.
My statements were clearly oriented around the inefficacy of sardine-can shows, and should be taken in that light. I'm not promoting an empty show environment, but an overcrowded one ruins almost all benefit of the show.And if you're such a big shot, why don't you use your name, or register? Perhaps you fear a backlash from acting rude?
Bass is supposed to sound big. 6.5" is not a woofer size.
Edits: 03/11/10
Ok, I take back calling you naive and stand by the rest. I never claimed to be a big shot. Those are your words, not mine. You asked me if I had been to shows, and I answered-honestly. As for my anonymous posts, I have my own reasons which have nothing to do with you or this forum. Given that it's perfectly permissible to do this, I don't feel any obligation to explain anything to you. Sorry if you think that's rude. It's not my intention to offend anyone and I apologize if I did.
I didn't attend but learned that larger exhibit rooms were $6-8,000, and rooms in general were pretty small. Several exhibitors were complaining about prices, amount of traffic (perhaps 500 total attendance), quality of facilities (seen better days, pleasant staff, downtown area generally rather grim but the nearby river is pretty), and management of show (show guide had a general map which didn't list who was in each room - very confusing and time-wasting, signage was incomplete and vague, no real "hands-on" presence).
I understand there were about 35 rooms overall, many of which were dealer based, or shared by dealer and manufacturer.
Under those circumstances, would you go to that much trouble and expense for such a show? If so, I suspect you would be in the minority.
Brian Walsh
I'm not saying that a badly managed show is desireable. Nor a ghost town. Just that overcrowding is just as bad for business as a ghost town, and certainly more stressful. Like everything else it's a range of possibilities and there's an optimum. It's neither very poor attendance nor wall-to-wall.
Bass is supposed to sound big. 6.5" is not a woofer size.
..i,too, attended the show and thought it was great. steve davis did a great job putting this on and it seemed to be very well attended and the response from the attendees i talked with was very positive...the rooms ran the gamut from bad to very good. the fellow that went with me and i thought the tidal-argento room was the best with the music being very natural and emotional. the tidal 'piano cera' speakers with the argento cabling were outstanding...all-in-all a very good show and we both hope that this will become a yearly event in the spring on the east coast..rmaf started out this way and has evolved into a great event and there is no reason why this can't also...
Did anyone listen to the Emotiva amps
I meant to post them here, but goofed up (link below).
It's interesting your father found so much "muffled" sound. The thing that impressed me most in the exhibits I visited was the preponderance of hyper-detailed systems. But it sounds like we didn't visit many of the same exhibits. But I agree that some of the Madisound speakers sounded extremely good, especially for the price.
In the Creek/Epos room, I believe you meant you spoke with Roy Hall, not Roy Gandy (of Rega), unless Mr. Gandy made a visit. I mix them up, too!
I don't know how to judge attendance, never having attended another show like this. But I think for a first-time event during a stinky economy, it was probably pretty good. And as you say, very little overcrowding.
Thanks for your post.
-Bob
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