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In Reply to: RE: The Sendor Harbeth Manifesto posted by Spendor Harbeth on November 3, 2009 at 11:36:43
"Critics inject way too much of their personal idiosyncrocies into reviews. In my personal opinion, they should review a products in the mindset of the prospective buyer."
Prospective buyers don't inject personal idsyncracies?
Wow.
How do prospective buyers do things?
Prospective buyers look at (real) value for money paid, unless they are some sort of trustafarian and don't care, and not some insane, fictitious method, like calling 89K speakers a "good deal"...(see JV's M5 review).
"Prospective buyers look at (real) value for money paid, unless they are some sort of trustafarian and don't care, and not some insane, fictitious method, like calling 89K speakers a "good deal"...(see JV's M5 review)."
In a nutshell this is how you're representing yourself. The self-anointed conscience of the proverbial well-heeled perspective buyer.
Insulting their judgment is no way to gain their trust. You have financial insecurities. You are passionate about it. Okay, we get it.
Does it make you an expert on valuing products that are beyond your means to comprehend? No, your biases will fluctuate with your bank account. It is also difficult to accept the inference that such personal issues are unique to audio or audiophiles.
Beyond my means to comprehend??? By what measure? Wallet or ears?
I thought the question was answered in the following sentence, "No, your biases will fluctuate with your bank account."
As such, my measure is your biases disallow separation of wallet and ears.
Good reply Soulfood. Yes and Yes.
On a side note, I am very fortunate and I can afford pretty much any system within reason, but I may be rich, but I ain't stupid. Some internal voice just does not allow me to spend as much as a top of the line luxury car on a pair speakers or amps.
That is not to say I won't spend what I need to.
Take a listen to the Manley Mahi monoblocks ($2500 a pair) and you the entire paradigm may shift in your head. It did for me. And I have heard the best from Krell, Boulder, Ayre, ARC, CJ, and more.
"Some internal voice just does not allow me to spend as much as a top of the line luxury car on a pair speakers or amps."
Exactly. your internal voice is not an universal voice of reason. Judging from your reply we may not agree to how financial insecurity is projected and perceived.
So, $90,000 speakers are affordable but the notion of reviewing or acquiring them is insane?
Acquire and review away. But call it for what it is. A "good deal"? No.
A fabulous speaker for a multi-millionare? Yes.
Just how many Wilson Alexandrias or Magico M5's do they sell a year? I'm actually curious. I'd guess a dozen, if they are luck. I may be off.
...the M5s sound better than the Alexandrias at half the price, or any other more expensive loudspeaker, how does that not make them a good value?And as to whether the M5s are overpriced, if you read the interview with Alan wolf, you would realize all of the innovative designs and materials, as well as new drivers he has developed for this loudspeaker.
They may in fact be a bargain...
Edits: 11/06/09
Because, Dave Wilson, who I have met and is brilliant, wrote a wonderful play in which the Alexandrias are the star. They are priced so high, that the other stars in the play, say Sasha, and Sophia, seem "moderate".
And even stars from other products, including the M5, seem like a "good deal".
Award winning stuff.
PS, yes, I HAVE heard the them, and they are great.
"Just how many Wilson Alexandrias or Magico M5's do they sell a year? I'm actually curious. I'd guess a dozen, if they are luck. I may be off."
Please, don't presume to know whether those business ventures are profitable.
Here again, it is quite obvious you are unable to comprehend why the products you can't afford are ever developed. Accepting that there is a market makes considerably more sense than publicly stewing about it.
Leave that to the unknowing media and audiophile haters to explore.
Oh dear me, you are saying I should not worry my pretty little self about such things that are over my head. Ok, I'll let, an obvious multi millionare educate me, since you are obviously part of an elite group that understands such issues.
How dare I presume to discuss the absurdity of pricing in high end audio, and how the audio press perpetuates this absurdity. I must have been out of my mind.
> ...like calling 89K speakers a "good deal"...(see JV's M5 review).>
But in your manifesto, you said:
> 2) If you have not heard a component, speaker, cable, or tweak…you DON’T have an opinion.>
So how did the M5s sound when you heard them?
I am sure they sound fantastic. My comment did not pertain to their fidelity, I assure you.
But IMO, there is nothing that can justify calling a speaker at that price a good deal.
His comment shows how distorted and insular the view of many audio journalists have become.
...what a hipocrite you are.You haven't heard them so STFU about them, like you said.
They may be the most amazing things you've every heard, and well worth their price. A veritable bargain.
You can't have it both ways.
Edits: 11/05/09 11/05/09 11/05/09
How does a review work out while perception of "value" he is to measure by? Something that's not worth $5 to you may be worth $5000 to somebody else.
Intellectual hair splitting. In the real world there are accepted notions of value.
There are products that have universally been accepted as offering superb performance for a very fair price..Grado SR-60's, Rega Apollo, Kimber Hero, etc etc etc.
What .01% of audiophiles can afford to pay for a product should not be included in the equation.
We'll agree to disagree here as to me "accepted notions of value" aren't universal, they're related to the disposable income or desire of the individual or group. I wouldn't spend a lot of money on a car as they don't excite me or bring the pleasure into my life that music does. I would happily drop plenty of dollars on concerts, recordings and hi-fi because they make my life more enjoyable. For me a critics job is to report what they hear and use their experience to put that into some sort of context based on their experience. I have no issues with a reviewer suggesting that a $50k pair of speakers is good value to them, but I'd need to hear it for myself to confirm if it's value for me.
Cheers,
Craig.
Deal.
I agree.
But for a reviewer to say a 50k speaker is a good deal to him hardly reflects reality unless they get paid $500 per word.
...to write entertaining stuff and sometimes their personal idiosyncrocies make for more interesting reading.This is particularly true of columninsts, like Tellig and Dudley, even Fremer, more so than regular equipment reviewers.
> How do prosepective buyers do things?>
Other than Spend-drift here, they keep their personal idotsyncrocies to themselves.
Edits: 11/04/09
Good post. One for the Mkuller.
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