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Another example of why let the facts get in the way of a good story

208.125.21.226

Myles B. Astor

Apologies to Ray K.

Myles B. Astor

http://www.switched.com/2009/10/28/the-laughable-147-audio-g (Open in New Window)

Follow Ups:

If you pay $147 for a wall outlet, you WILL hear a difference.(nt) - samtellig 10:56:04 10/29/09 (4)
(nt)
- Yep.... - alan m. kafton 15:00:17 10/29/09 (2)
  ....or $99, or $125, or whatever. Especially if the performance has improved. You've got decent ears. No reason you couldn't hear it....and enjoy it.
  - I couldn't be sure I had talked myself into hearing differences - samtellig 15:16:18 10/29/09 (1)
    even though I might actually do.
    - No different than comparing gear or speakers, Sam. - alan m. kafton 15:52:28 10/29/09 (0)
      The differences are usually obvious.
- You're right, Sam. - Dave Pogue 14:51:38 10/29/09 (0)
  I did, and I do.
RE: Another example of why let the facts get in the way of a good story - doak 18:26:20 10/28/09 (0)
It IS a fact that EVERYTHING affects the sound of a system (learned during 35 years in this wonderful avocation). However, 1) different DOES NOT mean better. 2) There are MANY ways to positively steer the sound of a system that cost little or nothing.
"Take care of the elephants and worry about the mice later .... IF you ever get to them." The elephants can keep you BZ for a loooooooooooong time.
Doak

Edits: 10/28/09
Of course it's laughable. The entire hobby is. But that outlet might make a difference. - keith_d 14:23:12 10/28/09 (0)
For all I know. It's fun to hear absurd things that seem to affect the sound (or one's fallible perception) and then wonder what the heck is going on.

I'm very _highly_ conservative though: I draw the line at interconnects which cost more than $50k per meter....
Make mine red! - bjh 13:52:07 10/28/09 (1)
Call me decadent!

:)

Everything matters, don't forget to tweak your placebos!
- OK.......... - Todd Krieger 14:31:53 10/28/09 (0)
  - http://www.fruitridgetools.com/storefrontprofiles/processfee (Open in New Window)
Combine these receptacles with... - The Real Dick Hertz 13:42:27 10/28/09 (1)
...Machina Dynamica's Tru-Tone duplex covers and the results should be BETTER than a good rogering by Chuck Norris!
- Maybe we should just call it getting "Chucked"? nt - SF tech 13:52:43 10/28/09 (0)
  nt
This qualifies for Randi's $1,000,000 - apesma 13:39:11 10/28/09 (1)
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/752-get-real.html
- RE: This qualifies for Randi's $1,000,000 - Todd Krieger 14:45:56 10/28/09 (0)
  WAY too efficient. Replaced my home theater wall outlet with the Wattgate and my TV EXPLODED from the inrush current that this product provided! Beware that some equipment may not be prepared for the undistorted clean power this outlet delivers!!! (Purported snippet from an audio review.)
  
  It should be obvious to even the casual viewer that the "audiophile comments" on Randi's site were made-up..........
What Facts? - Todd Krieger 13:19:01 10/28/09 (0)
"Theoretically, it means better power transfer and less interference, we suppose, but you'd probably have to have the hearing of an elephant or dolphin to hear the difference."

That is a presumptive belief........ Without actually listening to a product, or explaining why or why not the selected materials would make a difference, I personally would refrain from jumping to such damning conclusion.

"[Ed. note: This review seems to have been taken down by administrators.]"

I'll put even money that the preceding quoted text never existed.
A while ago we had a high def box for our HDTV installed in our house... - Steve Parry 12:35:05 10/28/09 (0)
...and I had an HDMI cable given to me by DirecTV to connect the box to the HDTV. This is a smaller discount HDTV from Costco. I bought a Monster Cable HDMI cable from Radio Shack, originally $100 on a great sale for about $40. My intent was to return it if it did not look better than the "stock" cable.

Note this article says HDMI cables make no difference...

All I can say is I, my wife, and mother ALL readily agreed the Monster Cable looked better...colors more true, less bleeding, just plain more realistic. They had no idea which was which. I just told them to choose which they preferred. I kept the cable!

The difference was so profound I bet I could take digital pictures of the screen when using each cable and the difference would be immediately obvious.

These sorts of discussions are nutty. If you are happy with the improvement for what it costs, so be it. I have no regrets and do not feel "taken" by the cable company. Your eyes definitely know what looks more real!

Does anyone need me to post pictures to be convinced?

Steve
"high-end" gear (essentially, the same as lower-priced competitors but with fancy words attached)" - musetap 12:25:58 10/28/09 (0)
No need to read beyond that.

Glad it was early on in the piece.

“ Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination. ” -Michael McClure
"I put in my favorite movie The Delta Force starring Chuck Norris" - FenderLover 12:14:26 10/28/09 (1)
Well, I guess if it passes the "Chuck Norris" test...

8^)
- It would appear his wife passed the "Chuck Norris test" :-)) nt - andyr 21:26:12 10/28/09 (0)
  .
Leviton Gray HOSPITAL Grade Receptacle Outlet 20A 8300-GY - Steyr 11:41:05 10/28/09 (21)
cheap and realy all you need in a receptacle.
- "cheap and realy all you need in a receptacle." - Metralla 14:22:16 10/28/09 (13)
  and you know this ... how? Because it has the word "HOSPITAL" listed? That word seems to have attracted inmate samtellig too. I wonder how he knows.
  
  Regards,
  Geoff
  - Sparking not wanted in a hospital, also do you want to be unpluged? - Steyr 06:50:52 10/29/09 (0)
    So hospital grade outlets are built to a higher standard they hold plugs better produce little sparks which isnt so fun when on oxygen.This sparking from poor conections produces RF and who wants that on your plug. Now you know and knowings 1/2 the battle.
  - A hospital grade receipticle is usually built to a higher standard ... - samtellig 16:34:42 10/28/09 (11)
    ... than what you get from the bin at Lowe's or Home Depot. This is not hype.
    - Indeed, Sam.... - alan m. kafton 21:03:47 10/28/09 (10)
      The thermoplastic is such that it withstands higher impact, and the contacts are usually bright-nickel plated so there is never any tarnishing. Different requirements for hospital/medical use.
      
      But the duplex shown is no match for a Wattgate, Furutech, or Oyaide in terms of sonic performance and musical enjoyment.
      - If the electron's can make it through the circuit breaker, - gtfsr 06:45:40 10/31/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Indeed, Sam.... posted by alan m. kafton on October 28, 2009 at 21:03:47
        
        with it's 2mm braided wire for handling 30 amps and a 2 4mm unpolished
        dot contacts and all that galvanized steel within the panel box plus the really impressive metal within the $3.00 breaker. Add in as much as 100' of Romex wire why go bonkers over an outlet?
        So long as it holds the blades tight with it's extra inch of copper what is going to do?
      - I disagree - Steyr 07:00:31 10/29/09 (8)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Indeed, Sam.... posted by alan m. kafton on October 28, 2009 at 21:03:47
        
        The contact is just a good as the over priced aimed at the audiophile units. I also find wattgate plugs that are very similar to ones for heavy industry use on extention cords. These to are cheap. Branded for audiophiles use add a wee bit oh gold,toss in freezer add flashy cover you get audiophile products. Oh and add a few $100s to the cost. Fine if you got much cash but system performance can be enhanced with this cash thats more important to end result than a receipticle which one only needs to spend $6 US on to get a improved version.
        
        Of course you do.... - alan m. kafton 10:24:30 10/29/09 (7)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I disagree posted by Steyr on October 29, 2009 at 07:00:31
        
        Contact is only one parameter. Conductivity is another. Substrate quality, along with plating materials are equally important. Which, of course, you don't consider whatsoever.
        
        "add a wee bit oh gold, toss in freezer"...."add a few $100s to the cost"? Puh-leeze. Throwing out these glib, inaccurate and useless phrases only limits your credibility. You see the forest, not the trees.
        
        And you never admit to listening and comparing any outlets, which is critical to this or any discussion on the merits. Merely throwing around pejorative cosmetic references won't buy anyone a cup of coffee.
        
        You jump to a wrong conclusion that I havent listened to or own audiophile recepticles - Steyr 11:06:56 10/29/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Of course you do.... posted by alan m. kafton on October 29, 2009 at 10:24:30
        
        I have many swo-xxx audiophile outlets about. Have some PS audio in one room, in others mis hand me downs from a audiophile friend hes into the hype folks like you pass about. I also have a dedicated 200amp service just for audio use ea outlet is 20amp direct to breaker box also have my own main line and transformer off such line. But I have nothing to prove to you and have no bias toward selling these products as you seem too. The lack of credibility is all on you bud. You see only the cash you can make, not the truth. That you dont need to spend $100s for a good hi-quality outlet. This pic 4 ya
        
        Comparing outlets is rather difficult - Mike K 10:37:54 10/29/09 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Of course you do.... posted by alan m. kafton on October 29, 2009 at 10:24:30
        
        as it is necessary to have duplicate electrical circuits (ideally)
        or at least one outlet of each type on the same circuit. How many
        people can or will do either? Unless you do one of these, and do
        some sort of reasonable dbt or sbt, I maintain you have no basis
        for comparison since hearing "memory" is not very reliable (to say the
        least). And of course, there's always the risk that, if you do run
        an actual comparison ala the above, you will prefer the cheaper
        outlet! How bad would that be???
        
        Mike
        
        No it isn't. - alan m. kafton 12:03:26 10/29/09 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Comparing outlets is rather difficult posted by Mike K on October 29, 2009 at 10:37:54
        
        It's simple to make up a power strip or box with various outlets wired with 12-gauge Romex. I did this 12 years ago when first comparing Hubbell's. Plug in, plug out. Easy.
        
        But how do you know if the power strip or box has a sonic signature of its own?(nt) - samtellig 15:19:07 10/29/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: No it isn't. posted by alan m. kafton on October 29, 2009 at 12:03:26
        
        (nt)
        
        The power strip or box.... - alan m. kafton 15:55:24 10/29/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: But how do you know if the power strip or box has a sonic signature of its own?(nt) posted by samtellig on October 29, 2009 at 15:19:07
        
        ....is the constant, as is the Romex wiring (which pretty much replicates what's inside most people houses), and in fact replicates what was in mine when I did the tests.
        
        Therefore, comparing the outlets becomes comparing the outlets, nothing less, nothing more.
        
        One of these days you'll electrocute yourself.(nt) - samtellig 17:49:45 10/29/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: The power strip or box.... posted by alan m. kafton on October 29, 2009 at 15:55:24
        
        (nt)
        
        Won't happen....the Oyaide plugs and receptacles I use are well insulated. :--) [nt] - alan m. kafton 18:01:40 10/29/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: One of these days you'll electrocute yourself.(nt) posted by samtellig on October 29, 2009 at 17:49:45
        
        nt
- Agreed. While you're at it, get some hospital-grade power cords.(nt) - samtellig 13:03:21 10/28/09 (6)
  (nt)
  - its all 99.999% pure copper not magic fairy dust - Steyr 07:32:28 10/29/09 (5)
    Its not some kind of magic when they all use the same copper etc. For referance (A-grade copper cathode is of 99.999% copper in sheets that are 1 cm thick, and approximately 1 meter square weighing approximately 200 pounds. It is a true commodity, deliverable to and tradeable upon the metal exchanges in New York (COMEX), London (London Metals Exchange) and Shanghai (Shanghai Futures Exchange). Often copper cathode is traded upon the exchanges indirectly via warrants, options, or swap contracts such that the majority of copper is traded upon the LME/COMEX/SFE but delivery is achieved indirectly and at remove from the physical warehouses themselves.
    
    The chemical specification for electrolytic grade copper is ASTM B 115-00 (a standard that specifies the purity and maximum electrical resistivity of the product). So are all these cables featuring copper purer than 99.999% that you get in any copper wire(They can not make it purer) Its all the same mann
    - "its all 99.999% pure copper not magic fairy dust." Who said anything about the copper? - geoffkait 10:53:00 10/29/09 (4)
      nt
      - thought most power cords used copper - Steyr 11:12:52 10/29/09 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "its all 99.999% pure copper not magic fairy dust." Who said anything about the copper? posted by geoffkait on October 29, 2009 at 10:53:00
        
        he did mention power cords or did I read this wrong.
        
        So, what you seem to be saying is... - geoffkait 12:58:58 10/29/09 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: thought most power cords used copper posted by Steyr on October 29, 2009 at 11:12:52
        
        the conductor material is the only variable. What a pretty thought.
        
        Geofkait ,Explain why you believe the conductor is the only variable? - Steyr 13:51:44 10/29/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: So, what you seem to be saying is... posted by geoffkait on October 29, 2009 at 12:58:58
        
        Why do you believe the conductor is the only variable???? I sure dont. Why is that such a pretty thought? Are you seeing hearing colors again? damn 1960s wrecked the lot of ya.
        
        Did you post this - "its all 99.999% pure copper not magic fairy dust" - or was it a ringer? (nt) - mkuller 14:00:03 10/29/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Geofkait ,Explain why you believe the conductor is the only variable? posted by Steyr on October 29, 2009 at 13:51:44
        
        (nt)
I bet at least half of the members of AA would agree with the author of that article - EagleRocker 10:39:25 10/28/09 (1)
The just don't bother expressing it anymore because... why bother?
- Leaving the other half (or so) to enjoy the results of upgraded outlets, cables, etc? - musetap 12:30:22 10/28/09 (0)
  No doubt.
  
  N/T
  
  “ Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination. ” -Michael McClure
$147 for a gazinta?? - Mike K 09:53:34 10/28/09 (0)
Well, as one of my highly skeptical friends has been known to say, "If
you dont' believe, you won't hear it".
RE: Another example of why let the facts get in the way of a good story - RonPil 09:33:29 10/28/09 (0)
As a general rule, since I am not a golden eared audio maven, I usually don't succumb to high priced add-ons of dubious, to me, value. I don't expect for me to hear a revelation in sound improvement with each new tweak.
So, if the device appears to make sense, has some scientifically valid backing, and costed $50.00 or less, I add it. If over $50.00, I walk away.
As for outlets, the PS Audio $50.00 duplexes have been in my system for several years. Are they magical, damned if I know.
Many people with much better hearing, such as my children and some members of professional orchestras, seem to think so.
Just my take on "improvements"
RonPil
RE: Another example of why let the facts get in the way of a good story - chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com 06:47:18 10/28/09 (7)
The best thing to do with articles like this is ignore them, as the writers will get a kick out of watching those strange geeky audiophiles get all outraged - they're basically cage-rattling.

If they think the whole idea of audio grade power outputs are crazy then best leave them to their beliefs - they're idiots - and as far as I'm concerned I'm perfectly happy for idiots to hold views which differ from my own, because if I started agreeing with idiots I'd be one of them.

Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.

Best Regards,
Chris Redmond.
- You Miss the Point................. - Todd Krieger 13:21:53 10/28/09 (1)
  "The best thing to do with articles like this is ignore them, as the writers will get a kick out of watching those strange geeky audiophiles get all outraged - they're basically cage-rattling."
  
  The issue isn't audiophiles and how they react..... The issue is discouraging potential hobbyists in a dying hobby.
  - hobbie dying? - Steyr 07:56:46 10/29/09 (0)
    Not in my view today more audiophiles on the earth than any time in world history. Dying sure among US boomers,brick and mortor shops which many moved to HT and mega buck charging companies but not in general. I still sell much to guys under 25. Just remember how much buying power,knowledge you had at 25. And how much you grew into your hobbie. Plus today younger folks have much cash and interest tied up in computers VG or portable music systems,unlike boomers who had less options for the entertainment $. Im sure some still will want better sound as they mature or experance it. But we are a small group compared to other hobbiests. And should never expect or want the masses to discover it;) Most folks are not wired to seek out improved sound and better music. But my kid built these speakers at 4 years old no help. My other son 21 builds amps speakers as do a few of his friends. I just set up a 22 year old with a free TT amp speakers some LPs. I bring massive horns systems to local schools so they can hear proper music played in a hi-quality way. Teachers are amazed at how quite the kids get after a few mins of music. On the school pa they get hyper. Maybe if others gave away extra kit, helped others start in the hobbie, took time out to vist schools or contribute to music programs in schools things would be better. But I never see others doing anything but complaing the hobbies dying booho. Do something about.
- RE: Another example of why let the facts get in the way of a good story - lord addleford 12:00:57 10/28/09 (4)
  so, to "disagree" is to be an "idiot". of course, as a respected reviewer for 6moons, you don't really hold this view......or do you?
  - RE: Another example of why let the facts get in the way of a good story - chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com 12:45:02 10/28/09 (3)
    Time for you to grow up Lord whoever you are, or at least think before trying to come out with clever comments.
    
    The simple fact is, somebody wrote an article which ridiculed a manufacturer's claim of better sound from a simple power outlet due to various treatments applied to that outlet.
    
    Now did that somebody listen to the outlet and comment that he heard no such improvement?
    
    No, he read the claims and decided they couldn't possibly effect the sound, and so the claims were obviously designed to convince gullible audiophiles.
    
    THAT is why he's an idiot. Not the fact he tried the outlet and couldn't hear any difference, but the fact he hasn't a clue if the outlet works or not but feels qualified to comment on it and anyone who might buy it.
    
    On the subject of me being a 'respected reviewer for 6moons', nobody deserves respect just because they are a reviewer - it's got to be earned, and while 6moons is a respected website I certainly don't regard myself as being any more worthy of respect now than I was before I started writing reviews.
    
    Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.
    
    Best Regards,
    Chris Redmond.
    - You make a good point -- but - samtellig 10:51:52 10/29/09 (1)
      if the "idiot" writer didn't want to hear any differences after listening to the audiophile recepticle, he wouldn't.
      
      And if he did, he would. It doesn't matter whether he listened or not.
      
      I don't dismiss the business about electrical outlets and power cords making a difference. It's just paying outlanding prices that gets me going.
      
      Cheap tweak:
      
      The wire to most recepticles can be connected two ways: with a spring clip or with screws on the side. Screws on the side are better. And probably safer. Make sure they are very tight. Then cover everything with electrical tape. Get a cheap tester to make sure you have the right polarity and the recepticle is properly grounded.
      
      I still like the sound (and robust build) of hospital grade recepticles. But then I hear what I want to hear, just like everyone else.
      - RE: You make a good point -- but - chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com 11:12:26 10/29/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: You make a good point -- but posted by samtellig on October 29, 2009 at 10:51:52
        
        "I don't dismiss the business about electrical outlets and power cords making a difference. It's just paying outlanding prices that gets me going."
        
        Hey, don't get me wrong - there's no way I'd buy the 'reviewed' power outlet at that price either, but I wouldn't go around ridiculing those who would buy it if I hadn't at the very least tried it out, and certainly wouldn't write a complete article about anything I had zero experience with.
        
        Either the writer was saying there was zero improvement over the standard outlet, or he's saying the price is ridiculous for any improvement there is; both conclusions require him to have experience of the outlet, and the fact he hasn't makes him an idiot in my opnion.
        
        "But then I hear what I want to hear, just like everyone else."
        
        I try not to hear the Trick or Treating kids knocking on the front door, but after answering the door four times tonight there's another knock - best go sort them out before they set the car on fire....
        
        Today is a gift - that's why it's called the Present.
        
        Best Regards,
        Chris Redmond.
    - Nice post;) - Steyr 08:02:00 10/29/09 (0)
      On the subject of me being a 'respected reviewer for 6moons', nobody deserves respect just because they are a reviewer - it's got to be earned, and while 6moons is a respected website I certainly don't regard myself as being any more worthy of respect now than I was before I started writing reviews. I would say reviewers get as much respect as Old Rodney D

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