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Need Your Input On A New Product

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I work at a company that makes corrugated products and the CEO wanted to see if we could make a product that would serve as an ecological, earth-friendly component rack. We wanted it to be large enough to accommodate two turntables on the top and the shelf space big enough to hold large amps (with breathing room). The unit would be sold as a kit consisting of around 70 layers of double-wall corrugated containerboard, die-cut into the shape of the rack. These layers are held together by means of a series of nine threaded shafts, with wood nuts on the end for tightening. Ambitious people, could further strengthen the unit by gluing each layer together, water seal it, paint it - etc..

I'm looking for any feedback on what you guys think you would pay for something like this and what you like about it or dislike. Bear in mind that it is large, VERY sturdy (we had three guys sitting on the top of this thing), absorbs sound and vibration, and is eco-friendly. It is not heavy (maybe around 50lbs), so that could be viewed as a positive or a negative (if you bump it, your turntable will skip). It is not designed to compete with super high-end racks, but to offer a very cool alternative.

The measurements are approximately 49 (wide) x 34-1/2 (tall) x 21 (deep). Can be shipped nationwide (in two boxes). The openings for components are 20" (wide) x 12" (tall) x 21" (deep).

We have considered making the openings slightly taller though so one could store records as an option. On other forums we have gotten good feedback and suggestions such as a wood trim piece for the front, clear plexiglass shelf tops and colored plastic front panels.

Here are some shots of the prototype, set up in my boss's listening room...

Follow Ups:

RE: Need Your Input On A New Product - muzikat 12:50:41 06/11/09 (1)
Nice effort, but I would pass.
- RE: Need Your Input On A New Product - SoundWave13 08:40:16 06/15/09 (0)
  Wow, there was a lot of replies! Thanks everyone for their inputs. I have recorded many of the suggestions put forth by you and hopefully we will decide to continue revising this product into something that will have its niche market.
  
  I'll keep you posted next time we make any changes to this item.
  
  Thanks again!
  Steven
RE: Need Your Input On A New Product - GLF 16:39:43 06/10/09 (0)
Very cool.

It would be interesting to see what the appearance is with a heavier sheet cut out on the front. I am 50/50 on being able to see the fluting from the front. Maybe a finer flute or heavier liner.

Can I ask which company you work for?

Andrew
I would buy it - Tom Schuman 17:28:31 06/09/09 (0)
Especially since the dimensions are about what I've had in mind for a TV/equipment rack.
However, I don't think it's particularly 'ecological' since cardboard is already wood pulp and shipping and distributing is not free.
I would pay €200 shipped to Europe.
And on what basis would a serious audiophile even consider such a thing? - Don Till 15:47:18 06/09/09 (0)
You seem to be offering an entertainment center configured for audio equipment. I guess the strength of such a design is that it looks cool with audio equipment in it.

Lots of people would like it especially if it's cheap. Is there some other reason, other than looks, and the fact that it's less costly than more expensive audio racks, for your product to exist?

The manufacturers of even my relatively inexpensive audio racks $600-$750 have at least some reasons to claim my equipment will sound better on their racks - ie. spiked feet, isolated shelves, rigid yet lightweight frames.

What's the niche you are shooting for? From your description it's not for audiophiles on a budget looking for a good sounding affordable one - just those who want one that looks cool with their gear in it.

There's tons of that kind of stuff around.
RE: Awesome - Gregg 13:55:12 06/09/09 (0)
Great Idea, and very chic as well.
Personally, I'd like a single-component width version.
Keep up the good work.
Great idea... - Dalton 12:03:50 06/09/09 (1)
How much, then, would you be paying people to use it?

As far as suggestions, I offer this: It would look much nicer if it were veneered in rare South American old growth hardwood and the cheap wood knobs were replaced with units made of carefully-selected and expertly carved elephant tusk.
- Now you're talking my language! - Raiderman 16:39:46 06/09/09 (0)
  I'll take two.
  
  Do you think they'd make one up with panda fur side panels, and another up with Cheetah fur?
  
  Oh wait, I changed my mind.
  Baby seal fur, that's the ticket!
  ;-)
Looks like it belongs in the Dumpster with the rest of the trash. )MT( - J. S. Bach 11:30:09 06/09/09 (0)
Dave
Later Gator,

Crank up your talking machine, grab a jar of your favorite "kick-back", sit down, relax, and let the go
Attn. Bored: This should be in the Press (ed Cardboard) Release area - keith_d 10:08:30 06/09/09 (0)
Dammit, I will stoop to any level.
RE: Need Your Input On A New Product - middleground 09:31:48 06/09/09 (0)
price : $19.95.

The look certainly can't be improved down to the 1940's kitchen valance look at the bottom of the stand...

See what you have to do is invent some mumbo jumbo to put forth the notion that such stands "sound better". You know like "the sound of cardboard is what you are missing!

Only other solution: install vacuum tubes.
Fire Hazard? NT - oldcrow 09:21:09 06/09/09 (0)
vvv
When will this be availble and what would the cost be? - TimB5881 07:53:26 06/09/09 (0)
I see this is your first post. Put a profile in so we can see if you are serious or not.

Tim
Exactly what I'm looking for ~nt~ - Cellist 06:06:38 06/09/09 (0)
Fritz
Too porous... - Abel McCain 04:46:40 06/09/09 (4)
Think about dust/dirt entrapment, flammability, durability, etc... I think there are better ways to be eco-friendly. Bamboo and other materials are being used to manufacture flooring and household items. Constrained layers of bamboo would work for audio furniture but the final products would not be that inexpensive. And I've seen speaker stands and other items made from recycled plastic drink containers that have been melted down and formed. The trick is to make something sturdy and attractive enough so that it will last consumers a lifetime or two. Things that last use up less resources in the long run. The problem is getting consumers to realize that it's better to invest in a few high-quality things than it is to buy cheap things that are discarded every few years.
- RE: Not really - Gregg 13:59:20 06/09/09 (1)
  Keep your imagination open. This could be finished in a great way. Would be durable enough, and no more flammable than some wood when it's presses together.
  My big issue will be price. This needs to be inexpensive.
  - RE: Not really - Abel McCain 13:15:57 06/10/09 (0)
    That's just it. By the time you "finish" this material the production costs would become much higher, and the ecological impact would probably become worse as well - not that most cardboard material is very eco-friendly to begin with.. It's a well intentioned product idea but also a seriously flawed one.
- Agreed - JeffH 11:59:55 06/09/09 (0)
  Would be a dirt & dust trap. Plus it would shed dust just be handling it. Nice thought though.
- Right! - Chris O 07:15:46 06/09/09 (0)
  My welded Target TT5 rack will last several lifetimes. When I purchased it in 1990 it cost less than $300. That was 19 years ago and it still looks new.
  
  For many, high end equipment is 90% showing off. I bined the milk crates years ago.
  
  ___
  Long Live Dr.Gizmo
It's a very cool idea - flatmap 22:41:26 06/08/09 (0)
The hip ecological factor is very good here. I'd like it to be cheap enough that I could try it... knowing that it would be pretty impossible to re-sell (except at yard sale prices) in case it didn't work out. I just don't see being able to sell it on Audiogon.

As a platform for suspended turntables I think it might be fine. But I wonder if it would really work for something like a Rega. My experience with my P3 is that if there is any softness or give underneath it -- then all of the PRATy, rhythmic goodness departs. That would be my main reservation.

I like the idea that it's not heavy. And once it is loaded with a couple of Krell amps, it won't be moving much. Having the holes for the shelves big enough for adequate cooling is very very important. Definitely make these big enough for record storage. That would give you an optional usage if it doesn't stand the test as an equipment rack. In fact... maybe I could sell it on Audigon as a record rack. :-)

Nothing in my house is particularly level, so threaded, adjustable feet would be welcome.

I'd like to see low pricing for the basic unit and then a series of add-on finishing touches at extra cost. That way one could try out the basic sonic properties and then add-on veneers, formica front and back layers, glass tops, doors, etc... if it works out well sonically. With that kind of scheme, you could make proportionately more on the add-on features. But when my impecunious graduate school friends come over see how cool this is -- they could still afford the basic unit.

Hope this works out. I think it's very promising.
I've made three of those already using old lottery tickets-nt - Green Lantern 21:27:11 06/08/09 (3)
.

"You don't have to be faster than the lion....
just the guy running next to you.." -anonymous
- My grandfather used cigarette packs... - AbeCollins 22:51:27 06/08/09 (2)
  ...he's dead now.
  - I hope you intended that to be funny. - powermatic 23:13:23 06/08/09 (1)
    If not, I apologize.
    
    "dammit"
    - It was supposed to be... - AbeCollins 07:33:36 06/09/09 (0)
      ...but now that I think about it, it wasn't really funny. He's been gone for about 50 years and didn't die from smoking but other causes. Thanks for your thoughts.
Cleaning it up - travisty 20:54:36 06/08/09 (0)
I think that some of the points below regarding visual and optics were well made. The flat face of cardboard (sorry... containerboard, or CCM) is the most easily discolored (and the least attractive), and the vertical corrugations mean dust is a problem. Personally, I think the internal stabilizing rods and wooden caps make it look a bit amateurish, and if someone wants to put CCM as furniture in their living room, it is because it surprises on the elegant side, not that it almost gets there. The previously-mentioned Wiggle Chair has internal screws affixing layers to each other, covered by end-panels of fine-particle fibreboard.

One of the advantages of so many layers is the strength. In design terms, I would make something which 'appeared' lighter (thinner longer shelves, or perhaps shelves with a slight arch to them (flat on top, arched underneath so thinnest at mid-point - probably not a strength problem because equipment footers are (almost) always towards the outside). If die-cut, you could do all kinds of shapes, curves, as long as putting them together did not cost much. Personally, I think introducing curves of some sort is where the juice will be in terms of design.
Try something with bamboo instead... - Abel McCain 19:55:19 06/08/09 (3)
Bamboo is the new, chic, eco-friendly wood...
- Bamboozled (Open in New Window)
- In the 'now I've seen everything' dept..... - powermatic 20:30:24 06/08/09 (2)
  Someone actually painted ("acrylic on canvas") the interior of a hut on 'Gilligan's Island'.
  
  I'm praying this was part of the artist's 'Ironic Series'.
  
  "dammit"
  - That's painting # 2... - Abel McCain 20:48:39 06/08/09 (1)
    Check out # 1 in the romantic series!
    - Hut Dreams (Open in New Window)
    - Mmmmmm......bunking with Ginger. - powermatic 23:08:20 06/08/09 (0)
      Great stuff-thanks for the laugh.
      
      "dammit"
Intriguing idea- a couple of concerns and a couple of suggestions - Bambi B 19:45:15 06/08/09 (0)
PAINTING: "Design for a Satie Museum"

Soundwave13,

I find the idea of a lamination of corrugated material an intriguing idea with a lot of possibilities. I really like the industrial quality of the retaining rods and washers.

And some concerns, the principal one being the way in which such an object would age. In some ways I appreciate Frank Gehry's cardboard laminated furniture more than other designs done when he could afford Titanium instead. But, I've seen Gehry cardboard furniture that was actually used only a few times and it looks in terrible condition.

I realize that your material is not ordinary cardboard, but the problem with the corrugated materials I know is that the surface skin is very prone to denting and penetration and secondly, the edge surface created by the open corrugated side- which constitute the shelves' surfaces, mean that the surface upon which everything is set is a series of open ends of very thin material. When these in effect corrugated webs are disturbed by dragging something heavy across, the effect is of substantial damage and is very noticeable. I would assume that moving a heavy amplifier by dragging it even once would make a noticeably damaged-appearing surface. My solution to this would be to offer shelves of a solid material. I know it sounds odd, but I had in mind something closely resembling concrete,..

One thing I might mention is that as much as I like the general idea, I think there might by somewhat more playful forms and proportions. Keep im mind that all the laminations need not be identical. It would need assembly in a certain order, but remember if you chose, you could make these racks in a smooth spiral using laminations. As you're in the world of audio, you might have a look at the way a Vandersteen 5 speaker is constructed- a very 3 dimensional, varying shape which is composed of vertical stacking of layers of MDF, and this includes diagonal internal bracing created by the shape of each layer.

In summary, an intriguing idea, but consider the effects of aging on the surfaces and think a bit more three-dimensionally- and play with it- try something outrageous and get it shown in a Soho gallery! You probably know Gehry's laminated cardboard furniture but have a look again and at Robert Venturi's shapely laminated wood (plywood) Chippendale chairs.

I've designed a number of pieces of furniture over the years and found that something with innovative materials used with unconventional forms always attracts attention. This particular material seems to cry out for something more playful. who knows, this could be a breakout product for the boring industrial look of conventionally constructed audio racks.

Good luck with your project and let us know how it evolves.

Staying with a musical theme, isn't there a piece by Francois Couperin, "The Laminations of Jeremiah"?

Cheers,

Bambi B
I like the idea! - TimB5881 18:53:22 06/08/09 (0)
Especially if it is cost effective. The idea of being able to paint or finish it myself also has some appeal. One thought, maybe do like the speaker stand people do, and allow some way for shot or sand to be added for extra weight if needed or wanted.

Tim
Looks like a lot of vibration damping. That's a good thing. - free.ranger 18:34:00 06/08/09 (0)
The porous design should transmit less vibration to the turntables than solid materials. So if the layers are compressed enough to provide a solid platform, then you should be good to go.

I draped some nice velvet material over my speaker boxes to make equipment stands. The main engineering criteria for those designs was to buy speakers with the right sized boxes.

Mini-monitors were totally out of spec. Larger Advents were perfect.
Why is everybody calling it "cardboard?" - Dave Pogue 17:45:35 06/08/09 (6)
It isn't (re-read the OP). It's obviously VERY solid and sturdy. Pretty cool, too, in a funky sort of way. Two thumbs up here.
- Is it because 'cardboard' is used - powermatic 19:07:15 06/08/09 (4)
  to make "double-wall corrugated containerboard" ?
  
  Or that the generic, almost universal name for a "corrugated container" is 'cardboard box'. i.e., when asking someone to hand me a receptacle in which to pack my records, I, and almost everyone else, will say 'hand me that cardboard box', not 'hand me that corrugated container'.
  
  Those are my two guesses-maybe the OP will chime in and give us the lowdown.
  
  "dammit"
  - A cardboard box is something shoes come in. - Dave Pogue 19:17:09 06/08/09 (3)
    A corrugated container is something you pack your your CD player in to ship..
    
    I sure wouldn't pack records in a cardboard box, but that's me :-)
    - I realize the difference, but how about my second point: - powermatic 19:37:02 06/08/09 (2)
      What do you ask for when you want a "corrugated container"? I'll bet 99/100 people say 'hand me that cardboard box' because, though (possibly) technically incorrect (I'm not sure-they're made of 'cardboard', just corrugated for strength), it's become part of the vernacular.
      
      A small point in the greater (okay, even the minor) scheme of things, but then...you brought it up. (-:
      
      "dammit"
      - RE: I realize the difference, but how about my second point: - Dave Pogue 04:33:30 06/09/09 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I realize the difference, but how about my second point: posted by powermatic on June 08, 2009 at 19:37:02
        
        Most everything we discuss here on AA would be considered a small point to the vast majority of folks in the known universe. I imagine this one matters a bunch to the OP.
        
        What would I call it? Probably "a box."
        
        RE: I realize the difference, but how about my second point: - SoundWave13 09:34:56 06/09/09 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I realize the difference, but how about my second point: posted by Dave Pogue on June 09, 2009 at 04:33:30
        
        LOL, cardboard is to corrugated board like steel sheet is to corrugated steel. Like steel, container board comes in many different grades and thicknesses. Yes, both are made from wood pulp, but cardboard cannot be made into an engine crate, corrugated board can. To give you an idea of the strength of a corrugated box, we take V8 and Turbo-I4 engines out of wood pallets and put them into corrugated crates for shipment overseas.
- lack of technical background... - dave c 17:59:48 06/08/09 (0)
  ... I hope!
RE: Need Your Input On A New Product - AudioSoul 16:45:40 06/08/09 (0)
If I had a dedicated listening room that mite work. But I dont, this thing would never be allowed in our living room. (sorry). The wood pieces although a neccesary function of the rack look hidious (sorry). If there was some way to get rid of those and use plexiglass on the tops that would improve things. What about using plywood framing on the exposed areas?
That would leave enough support that you wouldn't need the wood thingies. You wouldn't have to use a high grade plywood if you go for the unfinished look. The plexiglass tops could be an option. Kind of like a systems approach, buy the basic unit and add on as you aquire more funds.
Those are my suggestions........
RE: Need Your Input On A New Product - chris.redmond2@bushinternet.com 15:15:06 06/08/09 (1)
"...make a product that would serve as an ecological, earth-friendly component rack."

Well, if cardboard is regurgitated wood then I can't see how it's more earth-friendly than wood, and wood is easier to package, is more solid, can be shaped, polished, painted and made to look more stylish than cardboard.

Can't see the ecological advantage of taking wood which is an excellent material for making strong, good looking, durable products, and replacing it with wood which has been pulped, pressed and glued, unless the cardboard is re-cycled.

Even if it was recycled, cardboard is less than ideal for anything which is meant to last. Spill a glass of water against cardboard or onto the carpet beside it and within minutes it's ready to be mush - do the same with wood and it wipes off.

There's reasons why trees aren't made of cardboard. :0)

Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
- pulp - dave c 18:02:04 06/08/09 (0)
  "Can't see the ecological advantage of taking wood which is an excellent material for making strong, good looking, durable products, and replacing it with wood which has been pulped..."
  
  Please help us explain this to our government who are hell bent on chopping down the last of our original growth forests to sell to Japan f0or specifically pulping.
  This is arguably the finest timber in the world and it is being PULPED.
Good idea still lacks beauty factor, and unless dirt cheap... - mpathus 15:10:58 06/08/09 (0)
...I for one wouldn't care to spend more time, money and effort to improve its looks with epoxy gelcoat.

Still, if made with some more spacers between the layers of die-cut cardboard it might allow for more ventilation (and visual interest?).

Keep refining, you're on to something.

(Thinking out loud: try sheets of glue bonded then pressed scrap aluminum foil that have been die cut - would look like a galvanized patchwork matrix and because of imperfections and glue, sound pretty "dead".)
You have competition - bartc 15:03:29 06/08/09 (1)
IKEA Lack tables are a known positively reviewed product for cheap vibration absorbing racks for audiophiles. They are probably made of something similar to yours, but they have a nice external finish. I see that yours is raw cardboard, which doesn't look good, collects dust, and would be subject to water damage (OK, nobody brings water near their components, but it is a danger). Look up the IKEA products and their pricing and see if you can really make a profit at a competitive price.
- You know, I was going to say! - Presto 16:01:21 06/08/09 (0)
  I was going to say the EXACT same thing but thought NAW, why pee in his cornflakes. Besides, it's kind of funky, cool sort of a neat looking DIY sort of effort.
  
  BUt I agree 100%. For $60 I can get four LACK coffee tables that have the same guts, but a nice easy-to-dust finish. You can't dust this thing off - you'd need to "blow it out" meaning you would need to take it outside and hit it with compressed air.
  
  Too maintenance intensive for me...
  
  But still sort of cool in a "I can't believe it's made out of cardboard" kind of way.
  
  Now - do a hybrid car in cardboard! That's impressive!
  
  Cheers,
  Presto
RE: Need Your Input On A New Product - Caucasian Blackplate 14:34:16 06/08/09 (0)
There has been some strange criticism on this rack, and some of it doesn't make a ton of sense.

I would probably be OK using this to hold tube amps. The vertical alignment of the walls in the material would allow for good airflow. Even the bottom of the rack allows for circulation.

Obviously the hardware will see some adjustments... I doubt you'd spit one revision out and just go with that.

You might be able to get 200-300 bucks for something like this. If you could offer different colors, that might help.

How does it hold up to being painted? I would wonder if a few layers of latex paint would transform it into something altogether different.
Good way to lose money - 4season 14:34:04 06/08/09 (0)
I like corrugated cardboard and think that rack looks pretty neat.

But I just don't see how you are going to ship that thing economically, because it really doesn't look like it breaks down into anything smaller. Look at most shelving by Ikea and Muji, and chances are, it fits into a surprisingly small shipping carton. Muji's cardboard shelving units, for instance, use square cardboard tubes linked together with plastic joiners, and you can configure to your heart's desire like Tinkertoys.
I'd consider it - Green Lantern 14:32:51 06/08/09 (0)
-if the price was right
-legs where in the right place

Not toooo shabby IMHO; but agree it needs more room for ventilation.

"You don't have to be faster than the lion....
just the guy running next to you.." -anonymous
I'm with marc g. Cardboard is a very dusty product - 1973shovel 14:32:23 06/08/09 (0)
No way it's getting near my turntables or LP's, unless the ends have been sealed with something. Cool idea though.
lol @ Sting. - ppopp 14:12:49 06/08/09 (0)
I too have some of his stuff. He just looks funny. His songs can be funny too - not deliberately.
What is the target cost ? .... - reelsmith. 13:27:46 06/08/09 (0)
A very auspicious beginning to what I think could be a successful product ...depending on what it costs.

reelsmith's axiom : Its going to be used equipment when I sell it, so it may as well be used equipment when I buy it.
Impressed. - powermatic 13:21:38 06/08/09 (0)
Reading your description, I wasn't sure what to expect, but as I scrolled down to the photos (nice, btw) I was happily surprised. I think the rack looks, for the most part, very cool-I really like the 3D texture of the corrugations. And speaking of which:

*I'd try to find a way to have the corrugations exposed on the front-like you've done on the sides. The flat cardboard face looks too little 'inspired design', and too much 'cardboard box'.

*Agree with other posters that you should lower the profile of the rod ends on the front face. Perhaps a wood washer of some sort, even a contrasting color, maybe in an unusual geometric shape (triangle, etc.)

*You should have available a one-shelf model to lower the height, and thus the aesthetic dominance in the room

*Unlike others, I don't see component cooling to be a problem, especially since the vertical corrugations would act as 'chimneys' for heat to escape through the top (I'm surmising that the corrugated channels are open through the thickness of the shelves).

*And finally, this is probably the wrong site to get a true feel for the sales potential of this product. It seems geared to a younger, hipper, possibly (though not necessarily) setting-up-their-first-home crowd (think ikea, west elm, crate and barrel, etc.) than the invariably middle-aged-and-older white guys, and their similar mates, who make up the majority of AA. I'd guess that furniture taste here trends much more to 'Furniture Barn' than 'Design Within Reach'. So take the most vocal criticisms with a basketball sized grain of salt.

Good luck

"dammit"
gonna need some refinement - badman 13:01:36 06/08/09 (0)
You'll need a strong, solid front and back piece, cut the same as the cardboard. You'll also need to fireproof it.

Probably a good sounding solution though.

Bass is supposed to sound big. 6.5" is not a woofer size.

Please note my dual status as reviewer and manufacturer. Take EVERYTHING I say with a grain of salt.
Another issue… - David Aiken 12:49:40 06/08/09 (0)
Constrained layer damping is often used for vibration control, and corrugated cardboard can be a good inner layer for constrained layer damping BUT…

The idea is to force the vibrations through several layer interfaces before they get to the floor. That means that the layers have to be horizontal. In your design the layers are aligned vertically so vibration passed from a component or from the floor to any given sheet of cardboard has a single layer straight line path through the rack. You've negated the constrained layer advantages by aligning the cardboard in the wrong way.

I kind of like your idea but I'd look for a way of making the shelves from layers of flat, rather than vertical, cardboard, even if it meant having to use something else for the outer layers to provide a little more strength and stiffness.

Also, it's hard to tell from the photo but it looks like you may have all of the corrugations running in the same direction. If you go for placing the cardboard flat to make shelves as I suggested, alternate the direction of the corrugations in successive layers of the sandwich. That will increase strength and stiffness, like the alternating directions of grain in plywood layers.

Come up with a good, economical shelf construction that can be made, or cut, to size and used in a normal rack frame and I think you'll have a much more useful product. If you like, you can also come up with a frame design to match but I think you're better off separating the 2 parts of the product—shelf and frame—and coming up with separate designs for each rather than trying to combine them as in the current design.

David Aiken
Interesting idea but.. - AbeCollins 12:13:43 06/08/09 (0)
...to make it more appealing to a wider consumer base, can you use your cardboard as the "core", covered on the outside with something that is more aesthetically pleasing and mainstream? I'm not sure what.

Also, I would be concerned with heat so having more clearance for tube amps or hot solid-state amps may be needed. Additionally, if you can place a thin sheet of shiny aluminum or other highly reflective flat surface above a potentially hot amp, that will help keep the heat from the cardboard.

Is cardboard demeaning or incorrect terminology? It is essentially cardboard, right?
Hmmm..."My components rack is the boxes they came in"... - Neil49 11:58:40 06/08/09 (0)
Apologies to the old car joke, "A Volvo is the box it came in."

Actually, that's a pretty interesting idea, but I'd have to agree with some of the concerns about long-term durability, given the exposed, open-celled surfaces. Also, the nuts do indeed look like feet, but that could perhaps be ameliorated by having them only in the rear, with some sort of escutcheon covering fixed ends on the front.

Thanks for sharing, particularly the high-quality images, which show how such a stand could blend in quite nicely with the right surroundings.
RE: Need Your Input On A New Product - jimmycj 11:44:01 06/08/09 (0)
I think is awesome,to say the least,and im guessing its super strong and stable.
RE: Need Your Input On A New Product - Jack G 11:42:54 06/08/09 (1)
Overall I like the idea, but the openings are too small. 12" isn't even close to adequate for me. Most (tube)amps I own won't fit. I have 3-4 inches of vibration control under my sources, so they may not fit. 20 inches would be better.
Jack
- RE: Need Your Input On A New Product - GTShelby350 12:00:00 06/08/09 (0)
  Very good point on the tube amps fitting. I would wonder how well the cardboard would fare with the heat that some tube amps (or even some of the larger solid state amps) give off with prolonged listening sessions.
  
  Interesting concept though.
RE: Need Your Input On A New Product - Vic D 11:33:10 06/08/09 (0)
I't definitely a creative solution. It may lack the finesse to get it over the acceptance hump, whatever that is. I showed it to my wife and she was interested by the ecological aspect but she felt the aesthetic was too crude to integrate with most furnishings it would be used with. I should point out that she has an eclectic style rather than the House Beautiful color coordinated look.

She liked the arches at the bottom and suggested evolving them into a slightly more creative shape for the rest of the structure. One suggestion was to make the openings staggered with different widths.

Unlike typically rack systems this medium allows a more creative approach to simply stacking in a linear fashion. Displayed with some Magico speakers or other laminated products would certainly add continuity to the medium.
Are you both crazy? - mbnx01 11:28:51 06/08/09 (1)
This is a joke, right?

Turntables on a cardboard rack? Yeah, the vinyl purists are gonna go for that.

Check out how small the shelves are...you need SPACE to let WARM electronics COOL DOWN.

Not to mention...ugly.

What system-worshiping audiophile would build their hi-fi shrine...on cardboard?

Seriously. Get real.
- You got my vote! Thanks, but no thanks would be my response too! -nt - Raiderman 12:54:33 06/08/09 (0)
Interesting - grantv 11:11:24 06/08/09 (0)
Good interesting, not sure; but interesting. :)
Good sides: Cheap (I'd imagine very much so), probably would work at absorbing energy fairly well
Bad sides: Quite ugly IMO, hard to clean and easy to get dirty/stained, probably a serious fire hazard (doubt this thing could pass any sort of fire rating), bulky/clumsy (particularly if on one side of room)
Do it - Mike B. 11:00:17 06/08/09 (0)
nice product from what I can see. You might want to consider a light coating that seals the surface from stains and moisture.
RE: Need Your Input On A New Product - marc g. 10:50:26 06/08/09 (1)
I like: the overall look and shape, nice and thick. Like the arched cutouts at the bottom - reminds me of my LP shelves.

I don't like: the open ends of the cardboard on top don't seem like it would be easy to keep clean of dust, one would need a wood platform for any spiking as another mentioned. Liquids should not be around the gear, but if it did get wet..., the wooden nuts look like feet, so the rack looks like it's turned on it's back! Don't think will retard fire as well a more solid material.

I do like the idea behind this - kudos for that. Honestly though, I wouldn't take it if it were free.
marc g. - audiophile by day, music lover by night
- Regards to fire safety - SoundWave13 09:02:01 06/09/09 (0)
  With regards to the ability of the unit to withstand heat, I am told that the ignition point of corrugated board is 427 degrees Celsius. Wood is 193-466 degrees Celsius depending on species. I don't know if the wood temp listed is for untreated wood or treated wood.
  
  Heat should not be an issue with the corrugated sheets we are using. As mentioned by many people on this forum and others, liquids are going to be the biggest problem. Besides the addition of top plates or shelfs, another possibility could be a wax coating on the inner sheets. A wax coated corrugated sheet is able to withstand splashs and can be wiped off easily.
Cool boss - travisty 10:31:18 06/08/09 (0)
I have always been a fan of the Gehry Wiggle Chairs, have thought of something very similar and played around a bit with the idea. The issue I have run across is leveling on the top, lack of ability to spike anything without putting a shelf in, and the big issue was my feeling that I did not want my tube amps heating it up.

The other, perhaps totally irrational fear, was that it deadens the sound a bit. It is very well-damped, and I was wondering whether it wasn't too well-damped.

OTOH, I think one could do a LOT of furniture that way.

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