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In Reply to: RE: Welborne Labs business in trouble ? Be aware posted by Thierry77 on June 17, 2007 at 07:23:26
If so, I would not want to be sending our down payment to him at this point.
Follow Ups:
"Ron Welborne has had nothing to do with RMAF since the first year." - direct quote from Al Stiefel, organizer/etc. of RMAF in recent correspondence.
Before any of you guys start thinking of forming a lynch mob or hit squad to gang up on him at RMAF, consider that almost everyone, including Al Stiefel who is a personal friend, has had a very hard time reaching him. I do not know the circumstances of Ron's absence nor am I here to defend him, but I urge you to approach him as gentlemen individually to see what can be worked out. Maybe you can get some kind of commitment in writing from him to make restitution, but I suggest doing so on a one-on-one basis. Be civil about it.
Brian Walsh
His name is on the website for the RMAF. This is free publicity and a statement that he is creditable. He is not.
Enjoy the music also still runs reviews of his products. The review makes him sound like a great guy and the kits are top notch.
The kits are a few parts in a box. I had over 30 emails to him during three months and still never received all the parts. I had to return to almost every board and re add parts. It made it so difficult.
These are two sources where most people look. They are not looking here.
Also how many people have been screwed around and are not part of AA. We will never hear from them.
I have notified Steve at Enjoy the Music.
suspect. I have corresponded privately with Al Stiefel in the past couple of days and spoke with him on the phone yesterday about all of this. Did you? I took the liberty of quoting a sentence from his email to me verbatim, because Al is too busy attending to other matters than to participate in online forums. Someone else, Art Tedeschi, maintains the RMAF website. Apparently the website content could be changed.
Again, I have no dog in this hunt. I empathize with you and others who feel cheated by Welborne, but the organizers of RMAF have no connection with Ron other than he is supposedly an exhibitor, and he and Al are friends. I hold Al in high esteem and suggest that he, Marjorie Baumert, and members of the Colorado Audio Society put on a terrific show. Maybe you would have a different opinion if you were to attend the show and experience the enthusiasm and hard work they put into it to make it a successful, enjoyable event. Relax and have fun.
Brian Walsh
Your comment to "Relax and have fun" is, frankly, offensive. Many audio consumers (as a dealer you ARE there to provide a service to consumers, right?) seem to be out money (and time!) as a result of Welborne's actions. For me, it is alot of money.
Suspect sources? Perhaps it is just me, but the tone of your post comes off as rather accustatory - as if due diligence was not done in connecting Ron with RMAF. Well, heck, we don't have your big shot inside connections. We are only quoting the official website.
If you dont like the connection spread some of the snarky insider attitude to your buddies with their fingers on the (website) buttons. Otherwise, I will wait to hear from the Show proper or read an updated site before saying that Welborne is NOT a sponsor.
.d
Gee Kev, I apologize for any offense taken, though not intended - I respect your opinion and understand and strongly support your goal of getting your money back. Anything less and it's not right.
Anyone can contact Al Stiefel and discuss the matter, although he is aware of it. His email address and phone number are on the RMAF site. There's no big shot insider attitude; Al is very approachable, one of the good guys. The purpose of my posts was to communicate the fact that Ron Welborne has not been connected with RMAF since the first year there. The responsible parties have been informed about the website matter. Heck, I've seen audio websites that are two years or more out of date, although I don't mean to make excuses. When in doubt, the best thing to do is pick up the phone to remove misunderstandings.
Brian Walsh
"Anyone can contact Al Stiefel and discuss the matter, although he is aware of it."
Hi Brian:
Given your quote above and your statement earlier that Al and Ron are friends, did Al provide you with any insight as to what's going on with Ron? Thanks.
Gerry
about that. I have no reason to doubt that you are correct. I am glad you posted as I was seriously considering writing online publications such as 6moons and posting in the Critic's Corner about this situation and calling for the RMAF boycott. Based on your posts, it would seem to not be the proper thing to do.
I would, however, encourage RMAF to edit the site.
Hey thanks! I'll encourage the RMAF folks to revise their site. I think we agree they don't want to be party to any questionable business practices of others. Do you plan to attend RMAF? I imagine you'd like it a lot.
Brian Walsh
I may, though my desire to do so has nothing to do with the Welborne situation. I have been meaning to do so for some time. This year I have a bit more flexibility in my schedule.
I went to the RMAF last year and will go again this year - its fun.
Thats were I Meet Welborne. How was I to know.
I would suggest banning Welborne from the RMAF would be the right thing to do.
I don't know about banning Welborne, but Ron needs to come clean on the matter and make restitution with people who have not received what is due them, or else not show. It's the proper thing to do. The matter is a source of embarrassment and perhaps guilt by association for RMAF otherwise. I suggest if you were to ask any exhibitor there what they think of Al and Marjorie, you'd get an enthusiastic thumbs up.
Brian Walsh
Thanks for the follow up Brian.
From my view Welborne has quit doing the "proper thing" a long time ago. It would be hard for you to know this with out having the experiences that we have had. So I understand.
Yes I enjoyed last years RMAF and will go again this year. I am sure Al and Marjorie are wonderful.
Then they should change the website. He is clearly listed as a show sponsor:SHOW SPONSORS...
Red Rock Audio
The Colorado Audio Society
Welborne Labs
Copyright © 2007 ~ AudioFest.netGiven the apparent association with Welborne, I would urge show participants to reconsider their involvement. I would also suggest that online and print publications to distance themselves from this event.
Although the show is quite wonderful, and perhaps the best in North America, coverage of and participation in the event implicitly condones Welborne's behavior. Look - if it were just me, I wouldn't have even posted for fear of doing harm to Ron's reputation for what could be a simple oversight. A search of the General, SET, Tweaker's, or Tube DIY Asylum will show, however, that there are scores of unhappy customers since the start of 2007.
Although I would never recommend a hostile confrontation at the show, Welborne has lost the right to be treated in a civil or respectful fashion. IF the problem is as extensive as it appears (I can only speak for myself, but I can assure you that in nine months the score in my case is Ron W. +$1850 / Kevin -$1850 and no product), he does not deserve to be confronted in private in order to protect his dignity. He serves the public, makes a living from the public, and should be accountable to the public. Is it embarrassing? Sure. You reap what you sow.
Yes, I am wondering why, perhaps over the past year or so, Ron's behaviour seems to have changed somewhat. He had built a loyal following based on nice products, decent pricing, and acceptable service - or so it seemed. Lately the service has dropped off, his AA forum has closed, and so on. Sometimes kind and well-intentioned people do bizarre things in certain circumstances.Despite some running battles with those that blindly seek to defend Ron's recent practices and gag those who would speak against him, I do have my concerns WRT Ron's health and wellbeing and the future of his business.
As for civilly trying to gain some restitution from Ron, it seems many have tried this already; I am not suggesting he be lynched, but lawful action must be taken to protect those at risk.
Cheers
Raymond
This is a disturbing turn of events.
I've been out of audio for a while (yes, I found my dream system and no longer feel the need to change anything) but I was a frequent customer of Ron's a few years back.
He was always very helpful, considerate and honest - although you did have the feeling you were dealing with a small family business. Things took a while to arrive sometimes, but he was never dishonest and always made up for any problems with shipments by tucking a few goodies in with replacements or shipping at his own cost.
It it very sad to hear that things have changed so dramatically.
Guys, I can't believe that Ron is just a plain crooked dealer. I really sympathize with those of you who have been done wrong, but something must have gone badly, badly "pear shaped" in his personal or business life for a situation like this to emerge.
That's no comfort to those of you who are out of pocket due to unfulfilled orders, but I can only guess that for some reason Ron is in a really bad place financially at the moment.
I hope that this awful situation works out for the best for all parties. It's a terrible shame that such a trusted dealer, and such fine quality products, have come into disrepute,
Cheers to all, good listening
TG
I think he is doing fine.He has just learned that there is no reason to be responsible. Money in the pocket is money in the pocket.
So if you do not have money its ok to be flaky and steal? Have you seen the Bicycle Thief?
> > > I think he is doing fine. < < <
So you are not sure?
> > > He has just learned that there is no reason to be responsible. < < <
Do you know this for certain? I can think of many scenarios that could explain the current problems with Ron.
I was just wondering why the change - nothing more; perhaps that part of my post could have been left out, for it is not directly relevant or helpful. Be damned compassion.
Also, do not miss my intent; I have taken on those that have blindly defended Ron before - hey, where are John Cheplas and Chris O anyway? - and may do so again, but assumptions will help the matter little, especially when they are no more than personal attacks on values etc. The current problems should be resolved in a lawful manner, for which there is no need for such assumptions.
Cheers
Raymond
http://audiofest.net/2007/
d
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