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In Reply to: SACD bombed very, very badly. So, posted by tinear on May 15, 2007 at 07:46:14:
CD is and always has been capable of the very finest audio replay available, but CD players haven't been; it the case of 16 bit digital audio we definitely SHOULD have been blaming the messenger for the past twenty+ years.Just lately I've been reading reviews of the Memory player which re-reads a CD player until 99% of the information has been successfully retrieved, and almost to a man the reviewers seem to believe this to be one of if not THE best source components available, and a significant step up from conventional CD players.
Now while I'm pretty immune to hyperbole after being underwhelmed by supposedly revolutionary components or technology (SACD for instance), I would say that IF the Memory player is the quantum leap in 16 bit replay the reviewers would have us believe, it would perhaps demonstrate that CD players do not retrieve anything like all the information from a CD, and that error correction IS NOT capable of making a silk purse from a pig's ear.
TEAC's VRDS transport mechanisms are designed to enable more accurate tracking of a CD's pits by the laser and must cost more than most CD players on their own, but the result is a solidity and depth to audio replay which stomps all over the myth that lightweight CD-ROM drives are quite sufficient for state of the art CD replay.
CD is easily capable of putting musicians 'in the room' once you get a competent player, but for too long the major manufacturers have tried to persuade us that multi-format players are masters of all when they're masters of none.
For the best CD replay you need a solid, well engineered transport with quality components and the best DACs.
Upsampling/oversampling are no panacea and are a sideways step, a different taste which excited the pallet briefly.Now however, like SACD and DVD-A, these technologies are being coughed up like a great big hairy fur-ball to be flushed down the toilet with the contempt they deserve.
VIVA LE CD!!! :0)
Follow Ups:
Chris CD playback (hardware) has gotten better, but not that much better! The only format I know that has lesser sound quality than the VERY BEST CDs playing on the newest VERY BEST CD PLAYERS is 8 track cartridge.
CD is a very, very, very challenged format. I have now after decade’s finally gotten CD playback that was not PAINFUL. I consider this the major achievement of the last year, CD playback without pain. But it will never have the resolution of Cassette tape much less SACD or DVD-Audio. This is totally lubricous! Totally and completely lubricous!
"Music is love"
Teresa
...when *I* get excited. Then we're quite the couple.clark
the polarity on your speakers.
"PS Was that too obscure?"
Unfortunately it went right over my head....and is disappearing over the horizon as I type. :0(
z
nt
nt
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
The memory player is pure, 100% snake oil marketed to suckers. A glance at their promotional material shows that they either don't have the slightest idea what they're talking about (see what they say about jitter) or they're deliberately obscuring it to make it sound like something worth buying.With a $30 CD-ROM my computer can make bit-perfect rips on nearly any CDs (badly scratched disks are an exception). I can verify this with accuraterip, which compares my rips against an online database. So my rips (and everyone elses that uses decent ripping software) are 100% perfect - every bit is correct. No need for a $10,000 memory player. Once the rip is made I can play it out using any number of devices - my favorite is the squeezebox. Now maybe the DAC or analogue stage in the memory player is good quality, but that's not what they're marketing the thing on (and if that's the issue, I can plug the SB digital out into any DAC, or buy a Transporter). So for less than $300 I get everything the memory player can do, only much more convenient and versatile.
It's the best CD reproduction I've ever heard. Guess I should be listening to you, not to the music.
I really couldn't care less who or what you listen to. But this:http://www.novaphysicsgroup.com/TheWhitePaper.html
is total nonsense. Obviously that doesn't mean the thing sounds bad, but it's certainly not encouraging.
".....is total nonsense".
Again, I haven't heard the player so can't argue as vehemently as those who have, but you do admit that nothing written in a white paper will directly affect the actual sound of the player.I do take your point that if their are obvious 'mistakes' in he white paper it can raise the eyebrows and arouse suspicion in the competency of the product's designers, but if the product is able to stand on it's own merit I'd be inclined to think the designers knew exactly what they were doing.
Which aspects of the white paper would you say are nonsense in particular?
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
z
Did you actually look at the white paper? If you're interested, I can point out a few of the nonsensical things it said, but I don't think you are.
z
This "discussion" reminds me of 3rd grade... what a waste of time.
The claims of the Memory Player have been debated on various forums. I for one do not believe that it does any better job of ripping a CD than EAC and a good laptop DVD-ROM drive. I've ripped some of my own tracks and listened to them on the Memory player driving the direct amplifier system just designed for it. Maybe it wasn't set-up well in this particular case, but I was not impressed. The build quality is wonderful and they seem to have implemented the transmission-lines well. Also, I did not see any low-jitter clock driving the digital stream output. In fact when I asked about this, they said that the CPU clock inside was clocking the stream..... There are those that evidently have it set-up correctly and claim amazing sound.
for a reviewer!Quite frankly, I've never read any of your articles and with comments like that I can't see why I would start.
"Quite frankly, I've never read any of your articles and with comments like that I can't see why I would start."
Oh dear - I'm devastated, but also mildly curious as to exactly which comment you disagree with and why my being a 'reviewer' is of any relevance whatsoever?
but since you asked...shows some concern(and promise);"Now however, like SACD and DVD-A, these technologies are being coughed up like a great big hairy fur-ball to be flushed down the toilet with the contempt they deserve"
In a position as a "reviewer" you have the power of making impressions on others that read you, I'd think you would have a more balance approach to your commentary.
"but since you asked...shows some concern(and promise);"Sorry to disappoint but I had my tongue firmly in my cheek when I said I was devastated, so looks like I don't show any promise whatsoever. :0(
"In a position as a "reviewer" you have the power of making impressions on others that read you, I'd think you would have a more balance approach to your commentary."
You mean I should be more diplomatic and mentally edit my views before committing to paper?
The fact I'm a 'reviewer' gives me no power whatsoever and I'd advise everyone not to regard my or any other reviewers opinion as more informed than his own.
If you are familiar with a particular reviewer and his reviews mirror your own experiences with the equipment in question then of course it's possible to regard his opinion as being more valuable and in fact it can be invaluable if you can't listen to equipment which he's reviewed, but I certainly wouldn't put my experience or expertise above any non-reviewer who frequents this forum.What I wrote was indeed a 'balanced' opinion based on my own experiences, but the 'flushed down the toilet' comment was also I'm afraid said with tongue in cheek, as hinted at (not exactly in a subtle way) by the smiley. :0)
Now stop taking yourself and 'reviewers' so seriously, pour yourself a glass of wine and maybe even find one of my reviews so that you can get it on your screen and steadfastly refuse to read it. :0)
OK your forgiven! :0)
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