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I don’t think it means much at all ………

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In Reply to: Interesting Article Regarding Price of Goods and the Placebo Effect posted by Cappy on January 5, 2007 at 15:22:43:

.........I have no doubt if I give a brief to a market research group wanting a result the exact opposite of the findings in the article then it will be forthcoming.
Depending on the questions asked and the context used market research can conclude any finding you set out to find. It is nothing new. How else do you get two “expert groups” of researchers that can conclude the exact opposite of any given question or scenario?
In relation to audio, of course “some” people purchase components that are more expensive on the sole basis that they believe dearer is better BUT by definition if some people do that then “some” people do not. So what have we learnt? I submit; absolutely nothing new!
IMHO we can come up with any given priority on how we might purchase audio gear, price included, and no matter how bizarre a suggestion maybe there will be somebody who has done it. But it doesn’t make the purchase right or wrong for the individual does it?
Lastly, it seems many here believe the “placebo effect” is a bad thing?
Smile
Sox

Follow Ups:

I disagree, because of where the study was published - Tom Tripp 09:39:16 01/06/07 (8)
".........I have no doubt if I give a brief to a market research group wanting a result the exact opposite of the findings in the article then it will be forthcoming.
Depending on the questions asked and the context used market research can conclude any finding you set out to find. It is nothing new. How else do you get two “expert groups” of researchers that can conclude the exact opposite of any given question or scenario?"
True enough. This is why I'm always suspicious of marketing surveys from corporations and surveys in general from public interest groups.
That said, however, the article says the study came out in the *Journal of Marketing*. Being a professor in a research-based business school myself, who has to publish in and peer review for such journals, I can tell you something about the quality of that journal, and thus the quality of the specific study. The Journal of Marketing is one of the 3-4 premier journals in the scientific field of marketing. (Yes, there actually is an agreed upon ranking among all professors of which marketing journals are most prestigious and rigorous, and JM is at the top of some several dozen journals). JM's peer-review process rejects over 90% of the articles submitted for not being rigorous or scientific enough. The kind of biased studies and surveys that corporations and public interest groups produce do not get published in JM. That doesn't make the conclusions from the article reported "true," but it does make the results compelling and to be taken seriously. That is, I can't dimiss such results simply because all surveys, and all statistics for that matter, are tainted because some groups "lie" with them.
- \\\That doesn't make the conclusions from the article reported "true,"///......... - three_sox 15:58:30 01/06/07 (4)
  .........\\\but it does make the results compelling and to be taken seriously.///
  Of course it is your prerogative to find the results of the study “compelling” but I won’t be giving a second thought to what 38 members of fitness centre think.
  The ‘other’ group of participants (no number given) who were given a drink and then asked to solve puzzles is hardly compelling to me. The other examples are just too ‘airy fairy’ to be taken seriously.
  IMHO it is absurd to try and relate the experiences of 38 members of a fitness centre drinking a sports drink and the rest of the community.
  I think it is irrefutable that “some” people believe paying more will get you a better product or service and “some” don’t believe that. The relevance of this to the individual escapes me.
  Smile
  Sox
  - so what if the study was done in a fitness center? - Tom Tripp 17:15:17 01/06/07 (3)
    Why does it matter that the study participants were people in a fitness center trying a fitness product, compared to, say, enophiles trying a wine, or to foodies sampling a meal, or to audiophiles listening to a new piece of gear? What makes fitness center patrons so different from the rest of the population that what happens to them (the placebo effect) wouldn't happen to others? I can't think of a what it is that makes fitness center patrons so unique that the findings would not generalize to the general population. Why do you think not?
    How do you feel about studies done on rats? :-)
    - \\\What makes fitness center patrons so different from the rest of the population ///............ - three_sox 18:31:34 01/06/07 (2)
      .........………..They are different by the very fact they are doing something that most of the populations of the western world don’t do. I don’t go to fitness centres nor do I drink sports drinks so from my perspective the findings are irrelevant especially from such an insignificant sample.
      My comments weren’t meant to be derogatory towards fitness centre patrons only that they were they group first mentioned, and with the most detail, in the article. Personally I give no credence whatsoever to any study on any subject where the sample is 38 people. I don’t believe such a small number does generalise well with the rest of the populace but of course you are free to believe whatever you like but please allow me the same courtesy.
      I have made it perfectly clear it is your prerogative to be compelled by the article just as it is mine to find it irrelevant to audio purchase, especially my audio purchases.
      I view any study done on rats for any purpose totally irrelevant when the sample number is only 38. Of course you are free to have any view on rat studies you like
      I do not find the article compelling and apparently you do. We seem to disagree, so what?
      Smile
      Sox
      - 38 is a sufficent sample size, according to probability theory - Tom Tripp 10:10:15 01/07/07 (1)
        
        In Reply to: \\\What makes fitness center patrons so different from the rest of the population ///............ posted by three_sox on January 6, 2007 at 18:31:34:
        
        "I view any study done on rats for any purpose totally irrelevant when the sample number is only 38"
        My last comment is that with such a simple statistical analysiss, a sample size as small as 38 can still reach statistical significance, as this one did, meaning the probability of such results happening by chance (ie, nothing is really going on), is less than 5%. Five percent is the accepted standard in science.
        "I do not find the article compelling and apparently you do. We seem to disagree, so what?"
        Like many people on AA, I'm just attempting to persuade, but if I fail to do so, no biggie.
        
        \\\38 is a sufficent sample size/// - Does your own FDA agree?......... - three_sox 18:21:39 01/07/07 (0)
        
        In Reply to: 38 is a sufficent sample size, according to probability theory posted by Tom Tripp on January 7, 2007 at 10:10:15:
        
        `......I know I certainly don’t.
        If you believe 38 fitness junkies drinking a sports drink to con themselves they are fitter than they really are then you go right ahead. IMHO I don’t believe that scenario relates well to audio purchases. (not mine at least – maybe it does yours?)
        Enjoy your week
        Smile
        Sox
- Re: I disagree, because of where the study was published - Tom Brennan 09:49:44 01/06/07 (2)
  "Being a professor in a research-based business school myself,"
  The white-collar version of a welding teacher in a vocational school.
  Nothing personal, just an observation.
  - What's your point? (nt) - Tom Tripp 09:57:25 01/06/07 (1)
    nt
    - Re: What's your point? (nt) - Tom Brennan 14:06:34 01/06/07 (0)
      My point? You read Paul Fussel doncha? Some guys get vocational training in "universities" from professors and some guys get it in "schools" from teachers or at it's most grand "instructors".
      Same racket though, teaching people job skills so they can put bread on the table.

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