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In Reply to: If you turn off the TV and just listen to the sound on a DVD-V, is it then discussable audio? posted by doyall on January 12, 2007 at 06:13:23:
That is perhaps the major issue with this forum.Regarding "turning the TV off," I'm one of those dinosaurs who refuses to have a TV anywhere near my audio system. Because of the absurdity of the DVD-A menu scenario, I've been forced to add a mini flat screen, but it sits out of sight. I imaginre that I'm not alone in enjoying my music without visuals...
Maybe this is a bad attitude to have, but I believe the Forum ought to survive on its own merits or die.
Follow Ups:
> Because of the absurdity of the DVD-A menu scenarioand another statment from related post:
> If it dies, it should do so because the format is no longer of interest
Based on such statements, it is obvious that you are biased again DVD-Audio. So why do you come to this forum at all and argue against what people who are actually interested in this technology should talk about?
Perhaps DVD-Audio are of interest to people who like to have somethihng extra when they buy an album? I like SACD, but I always have fealt that DVD-Audio was more appropriate for pop music, simply because I enjoy the videos that often come with them as extras, or being able to read the lyrics, or other documentaries. Such extras are not as much of interest to Classical music listeners, IMO.
However, in next-gen music albums the lines will be even muddier. Since there is no limitation to still images with our hi-rez music tracks, in the future once the technology ios widespread enough, video content will become the norm as part of the music tracks. It will allow the artists to add an additional dimension to the music and add value to the purchase. Even this capability may be of more interest to classical listeners, I would love to be able to listen to Beethoven's Choral Symphony in Hi-rez audio AND watch the performance at the same time.
Such things will become the norm in the future, even if that is years away.
Let's start with the first quote of mine that you reference: The fact that I find the video menu completely ridiculous has absolutely nothing to do with whether I am for or against the quality of audio I get from my many DVD-A discs. I dislike the requirement for a screen of any trype to be part of my AUDIO system. I keep audio and video separate, which is my prerogative. I am certainly allowed to dislike something that challenges my enjoyment.Regarding the second quote with which you seem to have an issue: I was referring to the Forum dying from lack of interest, not the format. I believe that was extremely clear.
Your accusation that I have a bias against DVD-A and should therefore not hang out here is ludicrous, and represents one of the big problems with our hobby: even the slightest criticism is perceived as an afront worthy of a duel.
I certainly have my preferences as to formats. However, the fact that I prefer analogue to digital doesn't mean I'm biased against DVD-A, and it certainly doesn't mean I'm one of the SACD fans coming here to rattle sabers. I listen to all of them, first because its about the MUSIC and then because I'm able.
If you would step back from your frustration over the moderator's decision, you might see how inherently destructive it is to suggest to someone who enjoys his music on DVD-A (me) that he should go elsewhere. This Forum needs to gain participants, not to chase them away. Your defensiveness and ZS's aggressiveness serve the former.
I also have an issue with it being necessary (and I emphasize NECESSARY) to turn the tv on, I agree it should be optional. HOWEVER, many of the newer releases on DVD-Audio will automatically start playback of the music using the settings of choice, it is unfortunate that many (but not all) of the earlier releases did not do the same, however I feel that they have learned from that mistake and hopefully will apply it in the future.However, when you want interactivity, or want to access additional features, then the menus are indispensable. This is an important part of DVD-Audio, without that there is no need for DVD-Audio over SACD, for example. So my comment stands, speaking out against the capability to offer interactivity and also preferring the format die rather than allowing those who interested to follow where the technology goes, shows that you are not interested in what this technology has to offer, hence my earlier comment in this thread.
I am not saying you shouldn't read the forum, since I understand that you, like me, are interested in the hi-rez music experience no matter what the source, which is as it should be. However, since you are not really interested in the additional capabilities that DVD-Audio offers over traditional playback mechanisms, such as offered by SACD, this leads me to question why you feel it necessary to argue against allowing others to discuss these technology directions?
You state: "speaking out against the capability to offer interactivity and also preferring the format die rather than allowing those who interested to follow where the technology goes, shows that you are not interested in what this technology has to offer"Please show me where I stated that I prefferred that the format die?? My comments were directed to the FORUM, not the FORMAT. Different things. If the FORUM can't sustain itself due to lack of interest, then, yes, in my opinion I'd rather see it die than to be corrupted by all the other peripheral digital formats that have been tossed around here in the past year or two (remember ZS's obsession with DualDisc?). Now as to "speaking out against" something: I dislike having to use a monitor to access a simple "play from the beginning" command. That's hardly talking about all the other stuff one can get with DVD-A, which, as I stated emphatically before, I'm not interested in. Doesn't mean I'm speaking out against it, it just means I'm not interested. This leads to my next point:
You state: "However, when you want interactivity, or want to access additional features, then the menus are indispensable. This is an important part of DVD-Audio, without that there is no need for DVD-Audio over SACD, for example."
You couldn't be more wrong, in my opinion. There is a FUNDAMENTAL difference in SOUND between DVD-A and SACD. On many recordings I own on SACD, there is an audible upper frequency "hash" that drives me nuts. I wish I had menu-free DVD-As of those titles. I bought a universal player because 1) I have a lot of redbook (2000 titles), a lot of jazz and classical I like is on SACD, which I prefer by a wide margin over redbook, and I have many DVD-As of more contemporary music that sounds fabulous. My choice of DVD-A over SACD has to do with SOUND, and my choice of SACD over DVD-A happens when the DVD-A doesn't exist, which is quite often.
You state: "However, since you are not really interested in the additional capabilities that DVD-Audio offers over traditional playback mechanisms, such as offered by SACD, this leads me to question why you feel it necessary to argue against allowing others to discuss these technology directions?"
Me arguing against it is just as valid as you choosing to argue for it. I participate here, as you do as well. Therefore, my opinion exists out there with as much weight as yours. This means absolutely nothing, as this is not a democracy, and the Moderators may choose as they like. However, just because I disagree with YOU doesn't mean I'm at odds with the entire Forum. And frankly, the "additional capabilities that DVD-Audio offers over traditional playback mechanisms" are video-based: this is the "-Audio" part of the DVD world, not the video part, which you can get elsewhere on this site. I'm interested in the Audio part and the Audio part alone.
I'm not trying to force my point of view on the rest of the Forum, but I am registering an opposing view to yours, when you claimed that only racerguy wanted to keep this Forum video-free. (I'm in that group too.) You, however, by suggesting that I move on, are trying to force your view on others, and that does only damage the tiny support system that higher resolutions have.
You are arguing your personal preferences while I am arguing that discussions should be allowed to be broader because it is of more interest to this community than it is for others.However, at this point we are really arguing in circles, so for now I am not going to pursue it anymore. Not that I won't argue for it if it comes up in the future, just that it seems futile to pursue it more at this point.
Also, just the lack of others participating in this discussion besides some initial posts shows that the interest is not really there for now.
!
There's the rub. Very rarely do I want any visuals with my music, and I sure don't want to pay for it - and I don't want it "included" in the price.
Regards,
Geoff
When I am enjoying the album I usually don't look at the accompanying slides - though I sometimes read the lyrics on the screen.However, with next gen, they can and probably will replace the slides with less static video. However, just like with the slides, it is an extra which can be watched or not, depending on your preferences. It would certainly be no worse than with current DVD-Audios.
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