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In Reply to: Re: Your impressions of DVD-A vs. SACD.... posted by Chris from Lafayette on August 28, 2005 at 20:19:38:
i would hardly consider audio revolution to be the last word in terms of accuracy of reporting (in any case, if you read the review that statement seems to be talking about the player's analog outputs rather than firewire).i think it would have been difficult for the 47Ai to support DSD given the spec wasn't finalised until at least six months after it was released. there could have been a firmware update, of course. when did you buy yours?
the only way to tell for sure is to check for yourself, rather than rely on statements on the web. many statements made on the internet turn out not quite 100% true - there's the infamous case of the sony white paper on their digital amps which extolled how "DSD-like" the amps were, but a few people who have opened up the amps found out DSD is converted to PCM internally before it even touches the power amps. ouch!
and according to alex peychev the current budget Sony DVD/SACD players convert DSD to PCM internally because Sony couldn't be bothered routing DSD all the way to the DACs.
Follow Ups:
Christine,I've sent the following inquiry directly to Pioneer:
"I've owned a Pioneer Elite DV47ai universal player for a little over a year and am using iLINK to connect to a Pioneer Elite VSX-55TXi receiver. Can you confirm that the DSD data stream is being sent over the iLINK interface when I play SACD's on the DV47ai? (This is unclear on your web site.) Thank you very much for your trouble!"
I'll let you know when I receive a reply.
let me know if you do get a reply. regardless, i'm sure you will continue to keep enjoying listening to your wonderful discs :-)
Here are some old posts from dr1394, who has tested the 47Ai in his IEEE 1394 test bed.http://db.AudioAsylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=dvda&n=5427
http://db.AudioAsylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=hirez&n=113963
http://db.AudioAsylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=hirez&n=105413You can find more discussion by searching his posts. His conclusion was that the 47Ai sends encrypted DSD over the interface, not converted to PCM. However, he did state that the 49TXi converts DSD to 88.2k PCM internally and I think I've heard that stated elsewhere too. But that's the 49TXi, the 55TXi could be different.
Dave
I did get my answer from Pioneer today. Here it is, in its unedited entirety:“Thanks for the e-mail
Pioneer: Yes, the DSD is being sent out the i-link connections.”
So. . .
It is my belief, supported by Dave’s references to dr1394’s tests/posts and the above answer from Pioneer, that I’m indeed listening to the DSD data stream on the SACD’s I play on the DV47ai via the iLINK (aka Firewire aka IEEE1394) connection to the 55Txi via the “SACD Direct” option on that receiver. This option, as stated in the owner’s manual, “allows you to enjoy 1-bit DSD high-quality sound directly from an SACD component, bypassing the [receiver’s] DSP circuitry”.
Regarding Pioneer’s inclusion of the iLINK interface on its products before the spec for DSD over IEEE1394 was finalized, this of course would not have been the first time a company has rushed a product out to market in such a way, simply in order to be first with a new feature. We’ve all seen it happen in the computer industry.
What I forgot to mention in all this discussion so far is why I listen in this way (via the Firewire): use of the Firewire interface has been one of the biggest improvements I’ve ever made in my audio system, in terms of eliminating grunge and enhancing the realism of whatever recording I’m playing, whether it’s a CD, SACD, or DVD-A. I’m not saying that there aren’t better systems out there (as there surely are!) – only that the Firewire interface has been a significant source of sonic improvement within my own system.
... aren't you glad that you've now answered this question to your complete satisfaction?Next time an arrogant bastard like me asks a similar question, you can hold your head high in the air and answer definitively, with confidence. :-)
I am not surprised that you hear an improvement using the Firewire connection, the DACs and audio stage in your receiver are likely to be superior to that in the player.
Christine,I’ll try to answer the specific parts of your note below:
“... aren’t you glad that you've now answered this question to your complete satisfaction?”
MY complete satisfaction? I was trying to answer the question to YOUR complete satisfaction. :-) Anyway, as HAL would say, “I feel much better now!”
“Next time an arrogant bastard like me asks a similar question, you can hold your head high in the air and answer definitively, with confidence.”I left off the happy face in the quote, but in all seriousness, I doubt anyone here would consider you an arrogant bastard. I certainly respect the knowledge you show in your postings on this forum – even the posts where you trashed dual discs! (Let’s not get into that – I stayed out of that discussion!)
Dave, Christine:So far, all I've received from Pioneer is the auto-generated acknowledgement of my query, but now it seems as if I may have asked the wrong question!
I'm going to pour over the 55Txi owner's manual again - I'll let you know if I find anything enlightening. Thanks for your posts!
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