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Installed my brand new Panasonic DVD-S97 on the weekend.Initial impression was a bit disappointing - the player seemed a bit strident and brash, like typical cheap players. However, I know from past experience Panasonic players settle down after a burn in period.
Well, last night the sound was much improved. In fact, I played Diana Krall's Love Scenes SA-CD and DVD-A on both my players, and could barely detect a difference switching between the two.
What was amazing was that the picture quality was better than my old DVD-RP82. I've heard so many negative reports about macro-blocking, but haven't really noticed it yet (but then, I'm using the component video output at 480p and 576p, not HDMI). The MPEG decoder is clearly smoother in terms of handling slow pans, and one major advantage is support for PAL progressive scan (576p) with full 2:2 deinterlacing, unlike the RP82 (only NTSC 480p).
So, I would definitely give two thumbs up so far for this player. For the price I paid, it's a steal! (It's cheaper than the video card and the sound card on my HTPC combined!). Honestly, if you are looking for a good, inexpensive DVD-Audio player, you should really give this serious consideration. It even does Dolby Pro Logic II decoding for your 2.0 movie soundtracks, which very few players, even ultra expensive high end ones, will do.
And I know you men don't care about aesthetics, but this player is really pretty! I *love* the blue light across the disc tray, and the transparent disc tray that glows blue when it's opened!
PS - just in case you are wondering, no I will not be playing DualDiscs on this player either. I've learnt my lesson.
Follow Ups:
This is actually caused by the Faroudja FL23xx chip. There is a flaw in its design that intensifies problems with MPEG2 encode/decode in the lower end of the video range (10 - 30 IRE analog output). Not every display is affected by this flaw (some show no signs of it), but digital displays seem to show the flaw more often than not.Faroudja has tweaked a few things and the latest players, while not completely cured, show the macroblocking to a much lesser extent. It is rumored that they are designing/have designed a new chip that is free of the macroblocking issue. Unfortunately, it probably won't see implementation any time soon. I believe the reason this flaw was over-looked in the design stage was due to the pressure that manufacturers put on Faroudja to develop an integrated deinterlacing/scaling chip, inexpensively and quickly, rather than having to use two separate chips to accomplish this objective.
If you don't see it, don't look for it. Once you see/notice it, you're screwed!
i think the "flaw" really depends on the display - and is less intrusive on component out than HDMI.in my case, my projector has bad low level accuracy, so i don't really notice macroblocking, but i do notice some edge enhancement.
newer firmware versions (my player features the latest which is 86H360) apparently makes the macro-blocking much less visible.
i guess it's like the chroma bug - once you see it, you'll see it everywhere.
> > I've learnt my lesson. < <In that case, don't play industry spec dual-sided DVD-14s in it too! (They're thicker & heavier than DVD-5s & DVD-9s.)
You people are soo sad. While you all -- i.e. not just you Christine! :-) -- have been drivelling away here in your pseudo-scientific self-serving paranoid rants about DualDiscs (i.e. the threads below), I've been happily spending my day off work listening to the DualDiscs by: Tod Rundgren "Liars"; NIN "Downward Spiral"; and Keane "Hopes and Fears" (all with DVD-Audio) on my Denon DVD-A11. (And also "Deadwing" DVD-A by Porcupine Tree).
Have you really nothing better to do? C'mon -- Life's too short.
Hey, and Chrstine, do yourself a favour and get yourself a half decent DVD-A player with BM & time delay etc.! (Your new amps are WASTED on Panny source equipment.)
Do you really see the need to rain on someone's parade just because you are irritated by their previous post, and rather than a proper refutal, the best you can come up with is "drivelling away here in your pseudo-scientific self-serving paranoid rants"? :-)For the record, I don't own any dual sided dual layered DVDs. They are as rare as hens teeth anyway, and I've heard there are lot of reliability issues with them, so I will be avoiding them as much as DualDiscs (moot point, since I've not been able to find one so far).
*** do yourself a favour and get yourself a half decent DVD-A player with BM & time delay etc.! (Your new amps are WASTED on Panny source equipment.) ***
Did you really have to be mean-spirited? Does saying things like that make you feel better? C'mon, you are a better human being than this. And how do you know my amps are "WASTED" on a player that sounds good to my ears? Surely that's for me to judge, not you.
For the record, you are wrong, Panasonic DVD-A players (even my old RP82) have BM and time delay settings - I just don't use them, because I don't need do. In fact, I never engage any processing unless absolutely necessary.
PS - Have fun listening to your DualDiscs.
. . . it's just that some people might take your pronouncements seriously.You write as if you know all about DualDiscs, but in actual fact, I doubt you’ve spoken to a single engineer to do with that product (not counting Jimby who’s here strictly as an AA inmate). I would have more respect for your posts (as distinct from you as a person — who I DO respect), if you would actually visit a DualDisc manufacturing facility as a bona-fide journalist and interview an engineer, to do a feature for, say, "Michael DVD" (or an Australian hi-fi mag if they commission a piece from you) BEFORE you go posting "Hey, DualDiscs are crap" all over the world.
As regards your amps, another thing, in your modest apartment living room, you have enough power in your four new amps (plus your large sub) to DJ at the hi-school disco on a rave night!! ;-) Moreover, if find that especially amusing, since when you visited my place, I’d barely turned my volume up past 30 per cent of max when you told it was already too loud. For me, at that level, my amp was barely ticking over! ;-) Hey Christine, you really should have heard it today! :)
p.s. You are most welcome indeed to hear my DualDiscs in action next time you visit London! :)
Your latest post shows no improvement over your previous one.Remember I once advised you to leave your day job behind when you post on the Asylum? What might be considered acceptable journalistic practices is really not appropriate here.
It seems to me you feel somehow threatened by my postings about DualDiscs. Why? All I'm doing is reporting my direct personal experience, and posing some interesting questions that each of us should probably ask ourselves.
Why are you so afraid that "some people might take [my]pronouncements seriously"? Surely, if I "have been drivelling away here in [my] pseudo-scientific self-serving paranoid rants about DualDiscs", then any reasonably intelligent person would see through that immediately, so there is no need to fear. Or are you suggesting that your fellow posters are dumber than you are? Isn't that a bit patronising (to them)?
People who choose to attack my posts are basically displaying their own insecurities, because if they were confident they would simply ignore my posts.
At least you've learnt not to engage directly in a technical argument with me, because you know you can't win. Look at Soundgarden - he's so fearful of providing direct answers to my simple questions that's he's reduced to random sniping whenever he can get a word in. Daedalus/NotMe/Russea/whatever tried very hard to discredit my posts, and look what happened there.
But what you are doing shows that you don't even have the common decency to "attack the ideas, not the person." Instead, you've resorted to underhand journalistic practices, including:
- dismissing my posts as "drivelling away here in your pseudo-scientific self-serving paranoid rants" but offering no substantial technical refutation of them or any evidence to back your words
- attempts to discredit me and attack my credibility "I doubt you’ve spoken to a single engineer to do with that product" but deliberately choosing to ignore me when i reference the DualDisc license book (surely an authoritative document?)
- make remarks about my new player ("BM & time delay") which are clearly not trueAnd now your latest thing is to try and move to a different subject (my amps) which has nothing to do with the original topic of discussion. You of all people should know that a better and more powerful amp has nothing to do with the ability to play music louder.
Why? What satisfaction do you get from posts like these? Why invent lies just so that you can engage in point-scoring ("modest apartment living room") when you know that I live in a house, not an apartment?
Really, Martin, why don't you take a cold hard look at your posts and explain to me why you don't think they are "bitter and twisted."
Is it maybe you just won't accept my answer. You seem to be the only one that dosn't get it so whats there to be fearful about. And what sniping are you talking about, is this how you respond to people that don't agree with you. The bottom line is nobody here except Teresa is listening to you, why? Because we all all smart enough to make our own decisions and for me to keep playing my DD's on my machines despite your pronouncments is a no brainer. Sorry if you can not understand this, but thats reality.
trying to talk sense to them. They are firm in their belief that Dualdisc is not a legitimate format. Christine blames it for breaking her machine and Teresa said she would never use them since day one for whatever reason. Yet many others have no problem and enjoy playing them. For me I will only buy them if it includes a Hi-res track, right now thats my only gripe that not enough do. But I agree we should be able to discuss DD's in this forum without the constant badgering of a few who keep trying to push their agenda on the rest of us.
claim that the dualdisc broke her machine.
She stated that it broke on a DVD or CD that was within spec.Somehowe she managed to drag dualdisc into this discussion by cleverly making an association to certain thickness issues.
Some would call such post a troll.
Frank
Of course it was a troll post!I absolutely think the same and gave some real background information, with some standard links etc. Just o show (implicitly) that already other people have thought about issues like disc thickness and mass.
Obviously, they kicked me out very soonly, as I supposedly MIGHT BE some guy called "Russea", or "NotME". (Evidence never given. If I swear that this is wrong, they obviously won't accept this as "evidence". They will continue to insist that I (I!) should give any proof that I am not "Russea", which is not easy. If somebody is so convinced...My psychological explanation for these developments is quite simple: As I was signing up only a few days before, some people inmediately felt that I MUST be some old foe - whom they could recognize INMEDIATELY! Otherwise, I wouldn't have any reason to attack erroneous or half-true views (or troll views, BTW).
After a choleric attack when I knew the cause for my exclusion as "participating member" (now "former participating member", MAYBE doubling former or present AudioAsylum identities ... :-), I start getting over it, seeing the funny implications of this situation.
I mean, after so many efforts to prove that Christine's player didn't break because of any DualDisc influence, I have been excluded after proving what has been clear from the beginning, supposedly being some kind of reincarnation of "Russea". Now, that's really interesting. Because I had really, really "no clue" about this, as racerguy would say, and even never heard before of such a name... We are always learning, but we have to distinguish the truth from fake theories. (:-)
< < In Reply to: Is "Daedalus" = "NotMe"? If so, that explains a lot (nt) posted by Christine Tham on August 16, 2005 at 14:14:33:on the Ripe Network out of Holland. (Wow!!!) I forget the name he was using a few months back, but he's gone now.
Chris > >
He is very, very sure, our moderator. I find this quite interesting, both from the perspective as persecuted identity, and psychological detective.
Christine's remarks about my "case" are also quite interesting:< < At least you've learnt not to engage directly in a technical argument with me, because you know you can't win. Look at Soundgarden - he's so fearful of providing direct answers to my simple questions that's he's reduced to random sniping whenever he can get a word in. Daedalus/NotMe/Russea/whatever tried very hard to discredit my posts, and look what happened there. > >
I mean, let's say I am a DVD expert. (Not very modest, but at least not pretending to be God. See above, Christine's case.)
Really. Expert. But now, Christine insists that I should not engage "directly" with her. Because I should know that I can't win...This seems to confirm that we have to be very careful not to insult "Christine", as this will exclude any progress. Medically speaking.
< < The moderators feel that allowing this thread to continue, even though it may hold useful information, will wind up creating more trouble than it solves, and thereby detract from the purpose of this forum. > >But I SAID that I am NOT ... (at this point, the IP packets were unreadable)
-------------------------------------------------------------
Beside of using the form of parody to protest against my exclusion, I insist and SWEAR (YeLL!) again that I am not R U SS E A (line switched off.)--------------------------------------------------------------
Daedalus. I am Daedalus. I am no robot. I am Daedalus. I am not Russea. NotME is not me! DAEdalUS. 42. ( Which means, probably: "The sense of Life, Universe and Everything.") SOS. Please help me... Deadalus Didalu Daedalus. I am.............
P.S.: I am going to the airport. Bye!
< < The moderators feel that allowing this thread...
Enable your Email and I will contact you, since you can't deduce the reason from what's already been posted here.Until we get this resolved one way or the other, your post above will be the only one allowed to remain, so don't waste your breath or keystrokes posting any longer.
I realize you are going out of town and so I'll be patient.
Have a safe trip.
Chris
"Teresa said she would never use them since day one for whatever reason."Reason: Because manufacturers of my stereo equipment said NO and I heeded their warnings. In the future when I have a DualDisc compatible DVD-Audio player I will try one. Until then I will play it safe.
But that's just me,
Teresa
From Christine's Post "actually, all DVDs have the same thickness even the dual sided dual layered DVD-18. they are all supposed to be 1.2mm.DualDiscs at 1.6mm (at least, accordingly to what racerguy measured) is a significant 33% thicker, which is why some slot loading players have problems with them.
So it seems all optical disc's are 1.2mm, all DVD from single-layer, single-sided to dual-layer dual-sided, all SACDs Single-layer and Dual-layer. All CDs, CD-Roms, CD-R's, CD-RWs. The only disc that is not 1.2mm is DualDisc which is 1.5mm - 1.6mm and takes advantage of the .3mm tolerance for regular 1.2mm discs.
Not to worry there will be DualDisc compatible CD, SACD and DVD-Players with tolerances up to 1.9mm designed to handle the extra thickness and weight of DualDisc.
Just my 2 cents,
Teresa
- all DVDs have the same thickness even the dual sided dual layered DVD-18. they are all supposed to be 1.2mm. (Open in New Window)
> > In that case, don't play industry spec dual-sided DVD-14s in it too! (They're thicker & heavier than DVD-5s & DVD-9s.) < <This is not correct. Specifications for a DVD are 1.20 + 0.30 or 1.20 - 0.06 mm, regardless of whether it's a DVD-5, a DVD-9, a DVD-14, or a DVD-18.
If a disc is within spec, it cannot be substantially heavier or thicker than other discs. It must be within tolerance. Otherwise, it's out of spec. Period. End of story.By the way, whose sockpuppet are you? Do you belong to NotMe, or does he belong to you, or do you both belong to someone else?
.
Again, you've proven you don't know what you're talking about. That makes you winner of the Clueless Award. Congratulations, sockpuppet.
.
on the Ripe Network out of Holland. I forget the name he was using a few months back, but he's gone now.Chris
of censorship is only taken agaisnt supporters of the Dualdisc format.And I wouldn't be surprised if this post is deleted as well.
personally, I couldn't give two shits about which is superior: Dual Disc, DVDA or SACD, at this point. And if you actually paid an iota of attention to what has been written here and over on HRH, you'd no doubt know that I don't censor due to philosophical differences between formats.Sorry to burst your bubble, but the poster in question knows why he's being deleted and I'm sorry if you missed the boat on it.
Personally, I agree with you, I wouldn't worry a bit about prematurely burning out my DVDA or SACD player, playing DDs. I don't own any, but not because they might pose a potential problem.
After all, I'm finishing off my fifth year with a Sony SCD-1 and I have no desire to dump her prior to the end of September when the warrranty expires.
Be careful jumping into the middle of a fight unprepared, one usually gets bitten.
Take care and behave, Chris
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