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Yes, it's true - there are 100 times more dealers who sell out their stock of SACD's

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In Reply to: 2003 sales figures: SACD outsells DVD-A by 100:1 posted by thenexte on March 01, 2004 at 11:25:57:

By the way, you are comparing worldwide SACD PR figures with accurate half-year sales statistics of DVD Audio titles in the United States.
As most SACDs are hybrid-only releases, the only logical comparison would be total hybrid vs. combined DVD Audio and CD title sales, as the layers in the more audiophile camp are sold separately. The only fair comparison would be vinyl vs. DVD Audio, as mid-fi mass-market releases touted on the Hi-Rez Highway do not naturally correlate with carefully selected maximum-resolution releases discussed here and in the Vinyl Forum.
Next thing, only free and civilized societies allowing gay and lesbian marriages and not imposing the death penalty etc. etc. are supposed to have a significant number of consumers with discriminating minds. Based on this methodology, a scientific research of vinyl vs. DVD Audio sales in some European countries would yield some useful results as to hi-rez proliferation.

Follow Ups:

question - tunenut 14:50:25 03/01/04 (4)
"Next thing, only free and civilized societies allowing gay and lesbian marriages and not imposing the death penalty etc. etc. are supposed to have a significant number of consumers with discriminating minds."
Where did you find this correlation between gay marriage/no death penalty and discriminating audio minds? Just curious how you came up with this.
- These are just basic criteria that will make the original poster's home market and data irrelevant - DVDAphile 15:39:41 03/01/04 (3)
  And sure enough make you sick as well?
  - whatever you say... - tunenut 19:03:17 03/01/04 (2)
    it seems like you've mistaken me for a right wing nut, although I can't make out really what you're trying to say.
    - Ah, my (grotesque) sense of humor again... No offence meant, really! n/t - DVDAphile 14:52:22 03/02/04 (1)
      n/t
      - no offence taken (NT) - tunenut 20:53:26 03/02/04 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Ah, my (grotesque) sense of humor again... No offence meant, really! n/t posted by DVDAphile on March 02, 2004 at 14:52:22:
        
        NT
Face it........there are just more people into SACD than DVDA... - Chris Garrett 14:03:20 03/01/04 (23)
more titles, more hi end hardware, more people actually buying them, more people here, showing a propensity to buy them.
Heck, I know a guy on our chat that has over 900 SACDs? I know a few others who own over 500, and 700. I'm at 170+, with 15 DVDAs.
Who here has even 100 titles? Sure, we're just a small slice of the pie, but let's get real! And forget Germany, they don't count.
I'll buy more DVDAs for sure, when those floodgates at Warners open.
Chris
- That's your problem Chris, as well as many SACD only supporters... - rick5 06:57:40 03/04/04 (0)
  many here support both formats. We could care less who is in the "lead" just as long as the music continues. I mean when will the hard core SACD supporters get to the point where they don't feel challenged by DvD-A? Who really cares? At least the people on this board openly acknowledge the problems and dearth of software with DVD-A. On the hi-rez forum, there is always a spin put on things to make it seem "positive" no matter the news. There are a few like ZSDlekl or whatever(why not just ban him from the hi-way?) that are openly antagonistic on hi-rez but most of us want to see both formats survive.
- ..this afternoon I put five SACD's in my Sony C222ES, hit.. - theaudiohiffle 16:32:55 03/01/04 (0)
  ..shuffle play and was seranaded by five female jazz singers for the rest of the afternoon.
  My DVD-A player actually sounds better, but I can't do that with DVD-A's and so Jane Monheit, whose singing I adore, gets shunted unless I'm really in the mood.
  That's reality. Result. SACD 105 DVD-A 10
  Harry
- Let's be optimistic... - Frank. 14:27:11 03/01/04 (20)
  4 million sacd players sold up till now worldwide.
  20 million titles sold (probably the number sold to retail) means 5 titles per player on average. Big succes? Think again...
  If there are some people with a lot of titles that means there must be a lot of people with only very few discs.
  Frank
  - Apply same logic to DVD-A and what do you get? nt - theaudiohiffle 06:22:27 03/02/04 (12)
    .
    Harry
    - Same logic doesn't apply.... - Frank. 02:31:01 03/03/04 (11)
      Economics of scale are at least 100:1 in favour of DVD Audio.
      The **subsidised** short term succes of sa-cd means little.
      If the concept of multichannel albums laced with bonus video doesn't catch on the record industry will get into much more trouble.
      
      Frank
      - ...that's a duck...... - theaudiohiffle 08:01:52 03/03/04 (10)
        
        In Reply to: Same logic doesn't apply.... posted by Frank. on March 03, 2004 at 02:31:01:
        
        ..how many dvd-a capable players have been sold; how many dvd-a's have been sold. Same comparison. People don't generally spend more for a dvd-a player versus similar but cheaper units unless they like the idea of dvd-a. So how many DVD-A's per unit sold.
        
        Harry
        
        Different logic applies. - Frank. 10:56:45 03/03/04 (9)
        
        In Reply to: ...that's a duck...... posted by theaudiohiffle on March 03, 2004 at 08:01:52:
        
        As you said: People don't generally spend more for a dvd-a player versus similar but cheaper units unless they like the idea of dvd-a.
        Most of these people now what they are buying.
        With hyrid sacd a **lot** of people don't know what they are buying.
        If the hybrids are 'hidden' in de cd bins they sell more or less like a cd. The same titles in the 'hires section' gets far less traffic.
        About 10 million players sold. The number of discs worldwide ? We don't know. Probably less.
        More than 100 million dvd playback devices can play these discs.
        That's a lot more market potential than the sacd player base.
        Frank
        
        Re: Different logic applies. - theaudiohiffle 15:09:07 03/03/04 (5)
        
        In Reply to: Different logic applies. posted by Frank. on March 03, 2004 at 10:56:45:
        
        ...applies. how many dvd-a units sold. how many dvd-a titles. how many dvd-a titles per dvd-a unit sold. Based on your logic, dvd-a *should* have an advantage over SACD's "five per unit sold".
        Harry
        
        You still don't get it. - Frank. 15:50:40 03/03/04 (4)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Different logic applies. posted by theaudiohiffle on March 03, 2004 at 15:09:07:
        
        From these 5 per unit sold perhaps only 2 were sold on the merit of the sacd layer.
        The other 3 are just **subsidised** sales to people only using the cd layer.
        No doubt it's a fair succes in the audiophile niche market.
        See the blurp posted by Dennis above.
        16+ million DVD Audio capable playback devices sold.
        200+ million DVD playback devices compatible with DVD Audio.
        When economics of scale kick in it's over for sacd.
        PS DVD Audio survives now MLP is the mandatory codec for HD DVD.
        Forget BlueRay. The film industry is already backing HD DVD with blockbuster releases.
        Frank
        
        ...and you are still ducking. a straight answer... nt - theaudiohiffle 17:47:58 03/03/04 (3)
        
        In Reply to: You still don't get it. posted by Frank. on March 03, 2004 at 15:50:40:
        
        .
        Harry
        
        I already told you. - Frank. 23:24:49 03/03/04 (2)
        
        In Reply to: ...and you are still ducking. a straight answer... nt posted by theaudiohiffle on March 03, 2004 at 17:47:58:
        
        I don't know the number of DVD A discs sold worldwide last year.
        It's at least more than 2 million.
        Frank
        
        Frank, there is nothing for him to get!! He won't get and never will... - rick5 07:00:04 03/04/04 (1)
        
        In Reply to: I already told you. posted by Frank. on March 03, 2004 at 23:24:49:
        
        there are some people that are SACD only supporters and they will never conceive of DVD-A as a format. Why waste your energy? Its not worth it with these types. Best Regards to you.
        
        ...Just when you think you know, you have no.... - theaudiohiffle 17:02:36 03/04/04 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Frank, there is nothing for him to get!! He won't get and never will... posted by rick5 on March 04, 2004 at 07:00:04:
        
        ...clue. It so happens I have an excellent DVD-A player and at its best it sounds better than my Sony SACD player.
        But we are talking about intellectual honesty here, and sales of players and sales of DVD-A's. The DVD-A consortium has failed miserably in its marketing.
        I am rooting for Universal Players to make the whole thing a moot point and for both formats to prosper.
        But putting you head in the sand doesn' make you an intelligent booster. It makes you look like a lackey for a stupid, stupid consortium.
        
        Harry
        
        Re: Different marketing strategies employed... - thenexte 12:13:15 03/03/04 (2)
        
        In Reply to: Different logic applies. posted by Frank. on March 03, 2004 at 10:56:45:
        
        I have to agree that DVD-A had a lot more market potential at the time it was initially conceived, but the market simply did not respond to it for a number of different reasons:
        - DVD-A's were marketed to the DVD watching home-theatre-in-a-box crowd, however they cost more than a two-hour music DVD and contain 30-45 minutes of surround music without the visuals. People looked at value for money compared to the DVD and it wasn't there.
        - SACD was marketed to audiophiles from the beginning (all major classical and jazz labels are SACD strongholds), which was the primary reason for starting with stereo SACD and then moving towards surround sound discs (strike of genius by Sony).
        - SACD realized that the only way to get non-audiophiles into a new audio format is by providing a hybrid CD layer. Many folks that bought hybrid discs will eventually get into SACD when hardware prices drop sufficiently (Sony just announced a $149 player).
        The hybrid strategy is probably the strongest element and does seem to pay off for Sony. While 20 million SACD's were sold until the end of 2003, the projection for 2004 is 100 million SACD discs!
        -wolf
        
        Re: Different marketing strategies employed... - Frank. 13:59:21 03/03/04 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Different marketing strategies employed... posted by thenexte on March 03, 2004 at 12:13:15:
        
        I have to agree that DVD-A had a lot more market potential at the time it was initially conceived, but the market simply did not respond to it for a number of different reasons:
        - DVD-A's were marketed to the DVD watching home-theatre-in-a-box crowd, however they cost more than a two-hour music DVD and contain 30-45 minutes of surround music without the visuals. People looked at value for money compared to the DVD and it wasn't there.
        > > We agree fully on this: the market didn't respond **yet**.
        However:
        DVDA was **not** marketed to the HTIB crowd.
        They don't cost more than a two hour music video and can even contain up to 3hours and 22 minutes of 24/96 multichannel music. (Tacet's Peter and the Wolf just set a new record)
        You don't know if it's about people looking for value for money.
        It looks more like a retail bottleneck. The people don't buy from specialty hirez sections.
        sacd suffers the same fate.
        < < <
        - SACD was marketed to audiophiles from the beginning (all major classical and jazz labels are SACD strongholds), which was the primary reason for starting with stereo SACD and then moving towards surround sound discs (strike of genius by Sony).
        > > >
        Wrong, it was Philips insisting on multi-channel, not Sony.
        < < <
        - SACD realized that the only way to get non-audiophiles into a new audio format is by providing a hybrid CD layer. Many folks that bought hybrid discs will eventually get into SACD when hardware prices drop sufficiently (Sony just announced a $149 player).
        > > >
        There are $99 usd DVD Video/Audio players, so whats the point?
        < < <
        The hybrid strategy is probably the strongest element and does seem to pay off for Sony. While 20 million SACD's were sold until the end of 2003, the projection for 2004 is 100 million SACD discs!
        Don't hold you breath. Do the math, do you see a significant ramp up in titles of at least a five fold to get from 20 million to 100 million? In fact Sony Music is ramping down in comparison with last year...
        Wake up, these sales figures are just marketing blurps.
        20 million discs produced doesn't mean 20 million discs sold.
        A lot of those are probably stuck at the retailers.
        Frank
        
        By the time Average Joe realizes what the SACD layer is... - Eric LeRouge 13:35:23 03/03/04 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Different marketing strategies employed... posted by thenexte on March 03, 2004 at 12:13:15:
        
        his Sony / Philips player is about to croak out anyway.
        Nice strategy, but poor execution.
        Eric
  - How many DVDA & SACD discs do you personally own? - Chris Garrett 16:51:39 03/01/04 (6)
    How many of them did you actually have to buy?
    Chris
    - All of them.. - Frank 23:38:27 03/01/04 (5)
      230/28
      Frank
      - Thanks, you have a pretty good amount of DVDAs... - Chris Garrett 16:02:10 03/03/04 (4)
        
        In Reply to: All of them.. posted by Frank on March 01, 2004 at 23:38:27:
        
        and it's even better that you're spending your hard earned cash on them.
        I was just trying to get a handle on how many the 'hardcores' were buying is all.
        Thanks, Chris
        
        Re: Thanks, you have a pretty good amount of DVDAs... - Frank. 23:37:49 03/03/04 (3)
        
        In Reply to: Thanks, you have a pretty good amount of DVDAs... posted by Chris Garrett on March 03, 2004 at 16:02:10:
        
        Last year I bought about 20 redbooks.
        I used to buy 150 cd's a year.
        Now it's mostly DVD Audio or DVD Video (60/40)
        So with 70..80 DVDA's a year it's not that excessive.
        More than half of my DVDA collection is classical music.
        
        Frank
        
        Re: Thanks, you have a pretty good amount of DVDAs... - Martin , 03:46:53 03/04/04 (2)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Thanks, you have a pretty good amount of DVDAs... posted by Frank. on March 03, 2004 at 23:37:49:
        
        Frank, have you listened to any Arts Music DVD-As? If so, what are your impressions?
        
        Re: Thanks, you have a pretty good amount of DVDAs... - Frank. 04:41:44 03/04/04 (1)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Thanks, you have a pretty good amount of DVDAs... posted by Martin , on March 04, 2004 at 03:46:53:
        
        I have some of those.
        One of the Vivaldi's, Handel Messiah , Wagner overtures, the Shostakovich Symphonies & Mendelssohn.
        Sonics are top notch. All decent performances, especially the live recordings of the Shostakovich.
        The percussion on the fifth symphony is quite lively.
        
        I suspect an authoring problem with the Mendelssohn. The ending sounded a bit odd as if it broke off all of a sudden.
        As it came with the mail only yesterday I didn't investigated it further.
        Frank
        
        Re: Mendelssohn . . . - Martin , 04:52:44 03/04/04 (0)
        
        In Reply to: Re: Thanks, you have a pretty good amount of DVDAs... posted by Frank. on March 04, 2004 at 04:41:44:
        
        I know. Arts now know about this too. This was the "bug" I referred to. They have recalled them and are re-issuing them corrected in a month. You will get yours replaced free if you contact them. Apart from this glitch, I find the title excellent (as with all of them).

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