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In Reply to: RE: This or That posted by Jeff Starr on October 05, 2016 at 17:16:00
Thanks for this info!
"I think the OP should work on getting the two channel sound he wants, then if he wants we can help get him into PC audio, using decent software. Roon or JRiver or???"
OK, along that line, here's what I've been doing the last couple of days. The dealer I'm working with, in addition to the speakers, also sent me home with a Raven Audio Blackhawk Limited Edition integrated tube amp. He suggested that I might find that the internal DAC and analog output from my Oppo 83 might not be as bad as I think, once I connect it to one of his amps. So I connected the Oppo stereo outputs to input 1 on the Blackhawk. I also set the SACD output priority on the Oppo to STEREO. This resulted, for SACD, in the Oppo sending 88khz analog to the amp.
Well, after listening to a bunch of CDs and SACDs, I'd have to say that he was largely correct. Although I don't doubt that a quality external DAC would improve the situation, the audio quality using the Blackhawk is on a clearly higher level than the audio I get when listening to the Oppo through my Denon receiver, connected via HDMI, for both CDs and SACDs. The music produced was just beautiful, but at only 20 watts per channel, I'm not sure this amp would be the best choice for really cranking these speakers and trying to get prodigious bass out of them that they can offer.
I assume the superiority is largely due to the quality of the amp, since one would think the DACs in the Denon, being much newer than the Oppo, would be at least as good, if not better than those in the Oppo. The depth of the soundstage was impressive, and individual vocalists could easily be placed. The vocals were just incredibly clear and distinct.
One caveat is that I did pilfer a different set of speaker cables from my bedroom system, because the bi-wire ones I've been using in the front system would not connect that well to the Raven amp.
Thus, this experiment has convinced me that the level of audio quality I'm trying to achieve is not likely to occur when using an AVR based system. But one problem is that I don't think I really want to get into a tube amp situation, as it has been stated in this thread that maintaining tube amps can be expensive.
It doesn't look like there is going to be a good solution for multi-channel SACD and DVD-Audio, but perhaps a pre-amp with home theater bypass will be a next step, if I can figure out how that works.
Follow Ups:
"Thus, this experiment has convinced me that the level of audio quality I'm trying to achieve is not likely to occur when using an AVR based system." I thought so.
"But one problem is that I don't think I really want to get into a tube amp situation, as it has been stated in this thread that maintaining tube amps can be expensive." There are no free lunches.
> I connected the Oppo stereo outputs to input 1 on the Blackhawk. This resulted, for SACD, in the Oppo sending 88khz analog to the amp.
There is no such thing as 88-kHz analog. You're thinking of 24/88 digital. However, you are now using an analog connection, which is exactly what I suggested you should try first before buying anything new.
If you don't want to buy this tube amplifier, why don't you try connecting the Oppo's stereo outputs to an auxiliary input on your Denon amplifier? Have you tried that yet? You might find that you don't need to buy anything new. A friend of mine had the exact same problem you are having and when he discarded his HDMI connection in favor of an analog connection, he became completely happy with the sound of his Oppo BDP-103D.
Try it! You might like it!
Good luck,
John Elison
Yes, I think I'll try that. If the results are encouraging, I may also pick up an Oppo 105, which is supposed to have better analog output sound quality than the 83. Certainly a couple of cheaper experiments to try than buying high quality tube amps.
But, as Frihed89 points out, there is no "free lunch". The sound with the tube amp was just so good that I'll also keep looking into that as well.
this is a potential mismatch. Generally the output impedance of AV Receivers as preamps is on the high side (not good), and the single ended connection is not what the Krell is designed for anyway. To hear what the Krell can do, you have to use a better preamp setup, Krell and many other preamps for example can do AV passthrough so that the best input sources aren't watered down, and the power amps are properly driven.
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