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I'm looking to migrate from a cd based system to a computer based system. I have been able to audition some of the components within my system. My cd based system consists of an older DCS stack, Atmasphere amps, Vandy 5a speakers and Audioquest cables. I took out the DCS stack and replaced it with a friends computer based components including La Cie storage connected to a SS Mac Mini via Thunderbolt and iTunes via Audirvana. The Dac was an Esoteric D-07x. Playing a range of familiar music (70's rock, 50's jazz and some country/bluegrass) my old ears could not hear a difference.
The Esoteric has the capability to receive 24/192 and upsample to DSD which i like given my long experience with DCS. Other than the Esoteric the other UBS Dacs I've heard of that upsample to DSD are the Meitner ma-1 and the DCS Debussy.
Does anyone have experience or insight with these dacs? How would you compare the Meitner and DCS dacs to the Esoteric which I've heard. All of these appear to be on the expensive side so if anyone knows of a better value choice I would be interested as well.
Any input would be appreciated. Thx
Follow Ups:
Remember that you don't necessarily need an upsampling DAC to upsample redbook to DSD when using computer audio. The replay software can often do this as well. I don't know too much about the Mac options but JRiver MC upsamples if you want and I assume that the version of it for Mac does too. I guess that this option also exists with other replay software for Mac. This frees up your choice of DAC considerably so long as it will process DSD, or, more realistcially if using computer upsampling, handle DSD over PCM (DoP).You don't give a budget but you do express concern at the prices of Meitner and dCS. As far as dCS are concerned they have recently changed their range and now offer two DACs, Rossini and Vivaldi plus the older technology Debussy. Only the Rossini upsamples to DSD.
If looking at the used market, none of the older dCS DACs upsamples to DSD (this includes the Debussy, I regret that your information is incorrect on this). Aside from used Paganinis or Scarlattis equipped wth the final issue of firmware (which allows DoP), no old ones apart from Debussy can handle DSD except in encrypted form from SACD played on a dCS transport or from a dCS upsampler. Neither Paganini nor Scarlatti DACs have USB inputs either, computer connection being via the upsampler (to 24/96 max) or via later issue system clocks which is where the USB input is situated. That leaves the Rossini only to meet your full needs.
Another route would be to retain your old dCS stack (I assume its the Elgar range) and connect the computer to it by using a USB to S/Pdif converter. That won't necessarily allow DoP but then you can retain your DSD upsampling via the old stack's dCS upsampler box and save a heap of money. However I have to say that the later dCS products are notably superior.
Edits: 11/14/15
Thx for feedback. Some clarifications. The DCS I'm using is Purcell/Delius and I'm having some issues with the 1394 connection which is part of the stimulus for this shift. I'm reluctant to put much money into something this old. I had not looked that much into DCS but thot the newer Debussy could upsample but understand this makes buying in the used market more difficult. I think the best way to describe price range is to make the DAC compatible with the other equipment which is generally toward the top of the range in the brands available when it was acquired used, i.e. Vandy 5a, Audioquest Sky & Everest cables. I tend to use MC 501's as amps mostly because the Atmasphere generate so much heat. I would be ok with something in the $5-10K range, especially in the used market.
Was not aware the software up samples and I checked and the ones I'm considering do this. Would there be a degradation in quality with this vs having the capability in the DAC? Was also not aware of the USB to S/Pdif converter, same question on this re quality.
The only DCS product I've heard other than my own is the Puccini, playing cd's not computer audio. I take it the Rossini replaces the Puccini except you don't have to have the separate clock to play off of a computer.
This is interesting because when I've checked with DCS they will give you fairly good value when you trade in some of their older stuff for the new models. I'll have to check this out.
Thx again, you've helped frame the decision I need to make.
You have quite a few choices to make there.I'll start with the question about upsampling to DSD via the replay software. I cannot comment myself as if I wanted to do such a thing I have a Paganini upsampler. However there are many satisfied users and I suggest that you look at some archived threads on the AA computer audio forum. Just about all of those with "upsample" and "DSD" in the subject line are talking about upsamplimg within the computer.
Comparing in computer DSD conversion with that via a dCS box is a bit of a moving target. This is because in issues of DCS equipment later than yours DSD upsampling is enabled both in the transports and in the dedicated upsampling units. However the result from the dedicated unit is vastly superior (I've got both so I can listen!). Your existing problem with the 1394 interface in the Purcell/Delius is not unknown and fixes such as a replacement 1394 board are, I understand from someone with a similar problem earlier this year, no longer supported by dCS. I am not too happy about that situation given the price category of dCS gear. But, on the other hand, they will give a handsome trade in price against new equipment, as you are aware. So, if you want DSD you are going to need to change the equipment.
You may gather from my second paragraph that I do not upsample redbook to DSD. The reason for this is that , given the final firmware upgrade for the Paganini or Scarlatti, you can now use an asymmetric filter (otherwise called an "apodising" filter) with 16/44.1 sources and this is, IMO, preferable to upsampling.
That last comment leads me to suggest that you seek out a used Paganini DAC with that late firmware fitted plus a used Paganini Clock 2. This should just about fit within the top end of your budget* and be easily obtainable at the moment given users upgrading to Rossinis. Don't just look at the usual used hifi resources but also try dCS dealers who may well have trade-ins. That choice would mean :
1. You can upsample to DSD in the computer and use the DoP ability of the dCS to play it.
2. You can try the asymmetrical filter with redbook.
3. You will get a large (and I mean large) improvement in audio quality over your Purcell/Delius.
4. You will have a USB input that can handle all input rates up to 24/192 plus DSD.The downside is that you couldn't do this via the dCS upgrade scheme which would only apply in respect of purchasing the Rossini or Vivaldi. NB: the Rossini has fixed upsampling so you cannot use the asymmetric filter (which it is not equipped with anyway). You can switch upsampling from DSD to DXD however. Nevertheless a Rossini without clock is way over your budget and , in any case, it really needs the external clock to give of its best I understand (I have only heard it without a clock or with a Paganini one).
As for the USB S/Pdif converter there is much to read either on AA or elsewhere on this and it will not take you long to find lots of shoot outs between models over the past few years. They are supposed to be bit perfect but nonetheless some users express preferences.However your problematic 1394 interface now probably rules this route out anyway.
*Oops, hopefully ;You are talking $ I was thinking GBP. Then again you don't have our level of sales tax (VAT) which may help you.
I hope all of this helps. Let us know how you get on.
Edits: 11/16/15
Went from a CD-based system to a computer as my primary source but had a lot of confusion along the way. Which dac, what software, type/size of hard drive, etc.
The solution for me and several of my friends was the Sony HAP-Z1ES. Allow me to explain:
After loading all of my music on an external hard drive (which I had mostly already done) you connect the Sony to your computer using an Ethernet cable. It transfers automatically and from that point on you no longer need your computer as part of the system....it's like having a giant iPod it at hi-rez quality including DSD files. This eliminates drop outs with local wifi, the need for software updates, and having a bundle of computer ancillaries in your system. It also acts as a backup in case the computer crashes. None of this would matter if the sound and build quality wasn't top notch but they absolutely are.
Imagine all of your music in one player and easily controlled by an iPad. It's revolutionized how I listen to music.
I personally think that the value leader in DSD-cpable DACs is Grace Design's m920, which can be had factory-direct with a money-back guarantee for $1895.My favorite feature of the m920 is that it has seven selectable digital filters, 4 for DSD and 3 for PCM, and the PCM filters includes a Minimum Phase option that I LOVE.
HOWEVER, the Grace m920 does not upconvert PCM to DSD. I think it's worth a try anyway. In the Esoteric's price tier, I also like Luxman digital; their comparable unit upsamples PCM but to 32/384, not DSD.
DISCLOSURE: Since leaving Stereophile magazine (voluntarily and amicably), I have continued my activities in music production and recording, but I have also founded a small-batch audio and T-Shirt company, ESPERANTO AUDIO.
Here's the backstory to that name:
Esperanto is the name of the "constructed international auxiliary language" devised and promoted by L.L. Zamenhof in 1887. Far from being a forgotten remnant of fin-de-siècle idealism, today Esperanto is spoken with some degree of facility by as many as two million people. I chose the name Esperanto for my audio venture because in the same way that music is the universal language, the Esperanto speaker is welcome everywhere.
And here's disclosure of a commercial relationship (which is anyway "legally" irrelevant, now that I am no longer writing for Stereophile):
Thanks to Grace Design, the prototype of my own S/PDIF-cable concept had its public début in the Al Stiefel Legacy room at the 2015 Rocky Mountain International Audio Fest, in Denver Colorado. One can hardly take credit for the sound of a room when all one has done is to design the cable that went between the transport (the truly excellent Parasound CD-1) and the digital-to-analog converter (the truly excellent Grace m920), but by all reports, the sound in the room was entirely musical and very listenable.
One visitor posted:
"It's the kind of sound that's completely fatigue-free. It just makes you want to hear more."
The loudspeakers were Vivid Audio's V-1.5s; vacuum-tube amplification was by Luxman's MQ-88; analog cables were Cardas Clear; power distribution was by Shunyata; and the acoustical panels were by Delta H Design.
# # #
So, in about three weeks I will have a batch of Esperanto Audio "Small Batch" S/PDIF cables to sell.
I just didn't want people to experience "the miracle of childbirth" over my recommending a product from a company I have in a sense co-exhibited with, especially if they were unaware that I am no longer with Stereophile.
I have engaged an artist to illustrate collectible Gustav Mahler T-Shirts, and that is work in progress.
ATB,
John
Edits: 11/14/15
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