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Currently using a PS Audio PerfectWave. Need to keep it around $3,000 (new or used). Thinking Schiit Yiggie, PS Audio Directstream is always an option. Who out there has upgraded/changed from the PerfectWave?
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It is pretty clear that a DAC is pretty well obsolete after 5 years at the going rate, but a good sounding DAC is a good sounding DAC, too.
=Signature=================
As audiophiles, we take what's obsolete, make it beautiful, and keep it forever.
Hey! I have a blog now: http://mancave-stereo.blogspot.com or "like" us at https://www.facebook.com/mancave.ster
buy for whatever you have in abundance. Then your DAC will get used! If that's CD, then so be it. If you're a downloader, well, that's anyone's guess. That's one way to keep your DAC relevant to you and your tunes.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
..is to get the kit to upgrade your Perfect Wave to a DirectStream.
http://www.psaudio.com/products/directstream-kit/
You'd end up with a DAC that's rated Class A+ in Stereophile's Recommended Components, was Digital Product of the Year for both S'phile and TAS. It isn't based on an off the shelf chip like all the others, and is upgradable in the field with new OS downloads. It's not going to be obsolete in 6 months when there's a new Sabre chip--like all the others.
The November issue of Stereophile has Bob Deutsch's update on the latest OS, Yale.
I don't think you're going to get that level of performance-- or a guarantee of non-obsolescence-- elsewhere for $3k.
Bill Leebens
Director of Marketing
PS Audio
before I bought my R-2R DAC (1704K, similar to ahendler's). Didn't work for me. Glad I stuck with multibit. Audio-gd and Lite Audio may still have a few specimens left but they are being snapped up fast.At just over your budget ($3.1K), the AN Kits 4.1 NOS DAC, using AD chips, has a good following and a very specific, filterless design.
If you're into DIY, the Soekris R-2R DAC is worth a look, though you'll need someone to design the whole caboodle for you. Also, if you were still into Delta Sigma sounds and DIY, the DDDAC 1794 might be worth a shot.
There seem to be endless Sabre DACs about, of which the Oppo 105 is a (justly) popular example. Ultimately, even with the JLTi mods, multibit wins to my ears but there are plenty of happy Oppo listeners, and it comes ready to use with a good market in modifications too. Fantastic for video though!
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Edits: 09/26/15
I wonder just how much the sonic traits can be attributed to the digital design -R2R ladder vs Delta Sigma- vs the analog stage and voicing the designer puts into the end product.
and with enough exposure to a device, one can come to recognise patterns (something the brain is good at) to a greater or lesser extent. The patterns my brain recognises with bitstream technology tells these ears, at least, that those patterns are not for me.Using the analogy of film, those aspects of a design you mention do a great deal to shape the 'treatment' of a film or content. But the 'narrative structure' would be determined by the main protaganist or voice - the DAC.
If the narrative structure is satisfying, the 'story' told by the DAC (of the music and performance at hand) will be satisfying. If the story is jumbled, out of place, badly weighted, missing key ingredients and detail, then no amount of fancy camera work, art design, production design, superstar directors or DOPs will substitute for the defective heart of the tale.
I admit the limitations of the analogy, and am more than willing to audition new technology - including DS DACs in items like Avantgarde's Acoustic Zero 1 Pro - but know that I have a limited time on this earth, at this time, and with a all-too short a time remaining of decent hearing with which to enjoy the music available to me. I think my choices are reasonable, but enjoy seeing others make theirs, different as they are.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Edits: 09/26/15
We all have our reasons for making the choices we do. I have not heard a R2R DAC but I'd like to someday. That being said, I've owned a few DS DACs, some with the same exact ESS DAC chip inside that sound very different.
Each DAC sounds different, but to me, one type sounds like music and the other does not. In other words, when I hear an R2R, it immediately sounds like what I was looking for from digital for 20 years or so (my first CD player was when NAD just changed to "1 bit" and I stupidly thought that the newer technology must be an improvement, so did not buy the last of the multi bit players made by them). I can generally quickly hear the differences between the 2 types, but it's over the long term that the D-S really become unbearable.
It may be somewhat like hearing CDs sounding good and not knowing any better until one hears vinyl. Then one thinks, "that's music".
Different implementations of the Sabre chip, Different power supplies and different analog stages.
Alan
Who knows, perhaps King Wa can make the ESS Saber chip sound 'relaxed' and listenable over a long period of time.
Hoping I never have to find out.
For a thousand dollars, the TASCAM DA-3000 DSD recorder contains an exceptional sounding DAC. It doesn't have a USB DAC input, but I bought a Stello U3 , which allows me to connect my computer and stream up to 24/192 to its AES/EBU input. For DSD I plug a USB flash drive directly into its front USB port, which is designed to accept up to a 64-GB USB flash drive.
This is one of the best sounding DACs I've ever heard. I originally bought it to record vinyl, but I've been using it mostly for a DAC because it sounds so good.
Best regards,
John Elison
What are you using as a transport/source?
Had you thought about upgrading to the PS DSD? Or a Luxman d-06 or Lampizator,possibly the Ayre.
I have used the Blue Circle 509 with good results,but that was my choice below $2K.
Do you have any thoughts on spectral balance for your new DAC? Warmth,speed or preference toward tubes or solidstate?
And budget?
Tom:cat
Using a SoundScience Music Vault (Neil Van Berg) via USB as a source.
I'm sure you are addressing your questions to the original author of this thread, but I discovered how wonderful the TASCAM DA-3000 sounded almost by accident. I haven't tried any of those DACs you mention, but I did have an April Music Eximus DP1 on loan for a year and it was the best sounding DAC I had ever heard. I actually intended to buy it before I was introduced to DSD. Now, I have to have a DSD capable DAC and I bought the TASCAM DA-3000 DSD recorder so I could begin making DSD copies of my favorite vinyl records. That's when I discovered that the TASCAM sounded noticeably better than my Oppo BDP-105D and equally as nice as the Eximus DP1. Most of the DACs you mention are very expensive relative to the TASCAM and I'm all about saving money as well as achieving good sound quality. The TASCAM DA-3000 fulfills both of those requirements for the reasonable price of $1000.
Best regards,
John Elison
There have been other threads on this topic where I have recommended the Grace Design m920 and there have been comments.
I strongly recommend the Minimum Phase PCM filter over the other options the m902 offers.
I love the sound of Minimum Phase filters.
YMMV!
John
Nt
That makes no sense.
And also that it is a firm and credit-worthy bulk order motivates the discount...
I have never looked into it, but perhaps there are people who don't think to shop at BH Photo because they are not a "pro" photographer, and perhaps the same for Sweetwater and musical-instrument stuff. Who knows.
I have had hands-on experience with Grace Design's m905 and m920, and I think that both are fairly priced at full retail.
But I also think that the Bricasti M1 DAC is fairly priced at full retail...
JM
Hi John,
I'm looking into auditioning both the Grace Design m905/Analog and Crane Song Avocet II. I tried calling Sweetwater, but they were closed. SoundPure has the Avocet II, which can be demoed as I'm given to understand.
BTW, thanks for the recs for well-recorded strings. :-)
Vbr,
Sam
I love the m905 and I love the hard-wired remote control with real-time SPL readout. Having a light-up Mute button is great too.
However, I only used the Talkback function in jest, pushing it down to mute the music and to tell Ella how great she is...
I never had more than one pair of speakers connected at a time. I did not use any of the sophisticated offset functions, etc.
If most of your listening will be to hi-res over USB, I think that the m920 is the better choice--its DAC chipset is more future-proof and I think that the m920's Minimum Phase filter is better sounding than the M905's stock filter.
But if most of your listening will be SPDIF CD Quality feeds from a transport or server, the m905 might sound pretty much the same, especially if you do not like the idea of a M-P filter.
ATB,
John
Hi John,
Received the m905 this a.m. from Sweetwater and I've got to say...right-out-of-the-box, RBCD over AES/EBU -- tremendous! This DAC does decay...it recognizes timbre :-) Actually, the primary reason I investigated the m905 was for its monitor control.
I'll let it run for 24 hours straight, get the Atma-Sphere Silver Editions good and warmed up/adjust DC offset, and listen with the Studer. Then, I'll know.
Vbr,
Sam
I'd say that that fact--a very important fact--is "baked into the loaf of" BOTH prices.
jm
Nt
What I was referring to in my "baked in the loaf" comment was the Money Back Guarantee.
If you buy from Sweetwater, if you try it and you do not like it, you send it back--which is where I came in on this. Sweetwater's huge customer base and excellent reputation make my default recommendation a no-brainer. IMHO.
I did not know that there was a Massdrop in the works but as I understand that it is group-discount pricing for people who already are sure what they want, and AFAIK the Massdrop business model as I understand it does not allow for tire kicking.
I assume that m920s bought through Massdrop have the same 5-year transferable warranties as m920s purchased from anywhere else.
I think the issue here is MBG.
JM
That massdrop price is very attractive if you know what you're purchasing. OTOH, if Sweetwater was a brick and mortar store, I would not have posted anything about massdrop.
And so I have personal experience that perhaps one reason for their amazing success is not predatory pricing, but rather customer service that many brick and mortar enterprises of all kinds could learn a lot from.
There are only two reasons I can see how you can grow from one sound guy with a VW bus to one of the largest employers in that part of Indiana:
(1) You make a pact with Satan, or
(2) You provide customer service that goes the extra mile, all day long.
Of course, #2 is possible only if you constantly reinvest in the business, share your good fortune with your employees and the community, and make it as humane a work environment as possible, consistent with the Deming Principle of Continuous Improvement.
OK, where's my free guitar?
JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(But if anyone is tempted, one of those NLA made in Connecticut nylon-string Ovations would be just dandy!!!)
JM
I recommend the Audio-GD Master 7 $2400
This is a R2R Ladder dac. Incredibly good
Alan
That is another one I have thought about. Have read posts stating it runs incredibly hot but does it really matter?
NT
Mine does not run hot. I don't know where this started
Alan
but that's because it also includes a 9000 mW Class A balanced headphone amp!
And that's a MIGHT run hot, as I have not received mine yet.
Even my OPPO HA-1 runs pretty warm, again thanks to a rather robust Class A headphone amp.
Good question, hopefully someone has a direct answer. Schist does offer a good return policy. I want one, but it's out of my price range for what I'm doing and want to spend:
"15-Day Satisfaction Guarantee
Try Yggdrasil in your own house for 15 days. If you don't like it, simply send it back for a refund, minus a 5% transaction fee. Try spending 15 days in an audio store. They'll kick you out. Unless you buy them donuts. Maybe."
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