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In Reply to: RE: PC Audio vs. CD player posted by Tom Schuman on September 13, 2015 at 13:26:42
I think you're asking the wrong question. After all, we're talking about digital so both methods should sound the same assuming you're using the same DAC for both.
I switched to digital streaming because it's so much more convenient than playing physical CDs. That's the real advantage. You can use free software (Exact Audio Copy) to rip your CDs and there is also free software (Foobar2000) to stream digital to a DAC, so it really doesn't cost anything to experiment as long as you have a DAC with a USB input.
If your CD player's DAC has only a coax or AES/EBU input, you can buy a component that converts the USB digital stream from your computer to coax or AES/EBU. That's what I did. It will let you test which method sounds better, but I suspect they should both sound the same when using the same DAC.
Best regards,
John Elison
Follow Ups:
I'm aware of the archiving possibilites and the product palette. My point was that the sonic advantages are still not obvious. There's a slightly different sound, but not necessarily better.
Of course, technically, it's like comparing applies and oranges. Hard drive plus USB vs optical disc playback.
IMO it would be better for 'consumers' if manufacturers stuck to agreed standards and didn't have to pretend every innovation were an improvement.
Then again, true high resolution reproduction has never been a mass market proposition.
CD players are still more cost effective (read: better) than the PC Audio route.
Marantz CD 5005: about $350
PC Audio setup that sounds as good: at least $800.
It's more about format and delivery method than about sound improvement.
as well as the amount of effort needed to get the best out of computer audio. Audit the amount of time spent on ripping, getting correct meta data, and the number of key strokes to find an album, and complicated computer audio for background music is simply not worth it.
Are you suggesting that you are giving up on computer audio?I don't find it all that complicated or inconvenient. Like I've been saying for years, it's not rocket science (although some make it out to be). Keystrokes? I just use a 'visual interface' on the iPad to remotely find and control the tunes I want to play. No 'keystrokes'. Ripping? Insert CD and let her rip. The meta data and album art are automatically pulled from the internet.
If my computer audio setup were that much of a pain to use as yours, I would give up on it too. But quite the contrary. It sounds awesome, easy to use, and very convenient.
Edits: 09/16/15
> It's more about format and delivery method than about sound improvement.
I agree to an extent. The part involving sound improvement results from higher resolution formats, better mastering and better sounding DACs. Of course, I began streaming high-resolution PCM before I ever heard my first SACD. I didn't have SACD capability until about a year of more after I switched to computer audio streaming. Therefore, for me it was all about the convenience of the delivery method. My CDs sounded the same to me when played from my computer or my CD transport using the same DAC. On the other hand, I have no desire to go back to playing CDs or even SACDs for that matter because I prefer the convenience of streaming PCM and DSD.
For over a year I had an April Music Stello DP1 DAC in my system and it was absolutely the best sounding DAC I had ever heard. It was accurate and detailed yet also very musically pleasing. It made my CDs sound better regardless of whether I played physical CDs from my Stello transport or streamed ripped CDs from my computer. I have yet to hear a better sounding DAC. The only problem is that the Stello DP1 does not convert DSD and I have now fallen in love with the sound of DSD.
I firmly believe DSD is the best sounding digital format and I now have the capability to play SACD and DSD from my Oppo BDP-105D and DSD from my TASCAM DA-3000. The Oppo basically replace my computer music streamer although the first thing I noticed was the Oppo did not sound as good as my Eximus DP1. The Oppo is very musically pleasing but it is not as accurate or as detailed as the Eximus DP1. I got used to the sound quality of the Oppo and came to enjoy it very much. Then, I bought a TASCAM DA-3000 digital recorder to replace my aging Alesis Masterlink.
The TASCAM DA-3000 can be used as a DAC and will convert PCM up to 24/192 and DSD up to 5.6-MHz. It also sounds as good to me as the April Music Eximus DP1. The only problem is the TASCAM does not have a USB DAC input for computer streaming. Therefore, I bought a Stello U3 USB Link to convert the USB output from my computer to AES/EBU for the TASCAM. Now, I can stream PCM digital up to 24/192 from my computer and I can play DSD files directly from a USB flash drive connected to the TASCAM's front USB port. Moreover, the digital sound quality from the TASCAM equals the best I have heard.
Best regards,
John Elison
Hi there, I've never been impressed with DSD. What I have heard sounds phasey, hollow, lack of punch, smooth but boring, you name it.
24/88 and arguably 16/44 correctly done, correctly filtered and when the CD is well recorded and mastered, is adequate in terms of information.
When people are excited about 'hires', what they're hearing is a whole new unfamiliar palette of sonic signatures that may be less irritating in some ways, but on the whole, to my ears, not very interesting.
CD, HDCD, XRD, etc. are perfectly adequate and DSD is and was unnecessary.
It was of course a calculated gamble by Sony. And these day most DACs are DeltaSigma type which does theoretically accommodate DSD. So there is a meeting in the middle in terms of designs, but the computing power and hardware and lack of format consensus, on the whole, is unnecessarily expensive IMO.
Your post is a perfect example. Always buying new equipment to keep up with the format wars is just an exercise in futility. Swiss audio knife solutions also always sound worse than purpose built solutions.
Too much energy wasted.
Too much money.
Mature, and maturing, technologies work, and work well.
Not to mention that consumer grade will always be inferior, unless it costs a fortune. Incredibly, one can still spend $100,000 on a CD playback system, when with less market fracture, unnecessary upgrade-itis, and poor value for money 'hope for better' the problem could have been solved (and arguably has been) for something like $2000, even at a mass consumer level. Even that is an insane amount of money to spend on only one chain in the system.
Great post Tom, I agree 100%. I have only about a dozen SACD's that I hardly ever listen too and feel most of my over 500 CD's I have surpass them in SQ. I wish though more HDCD's were made. My reference one that I have and is probably one of my all time favorites is Stephen Stills Manassas album. Still sounds incredible all these years later! Anyone who wants to hear HDCD's capabilities should listen to this great album, the music and sound quality is second to none. I have regulated my PC set up to my headphone system after trying it in my big rig a couple of times using different dacs and tweaks. I always felt I was missing something when I had it as my source and when playing Hi-res file's, they didn't really impress me either. So now I only use CD spinners in my main system and plan on keeping it that way for a long time to come.
HDCDs do sound nice, and I wish they had more of them too.
-------------------------------------------------------
Big speakers and little amps blew my mind!
Then there was something seriously wrong with what you heard.
There is just so much MORE there in DSD, and especially 2x DSD.
Maybe "Believing" it's "Un-necessary" gets in the way of hearing.
maybe in the midrange, but the integration with treble and bass never seemed right.
There is of course the possibility that I did not hear an optimum setup :) But that's the point.
Each time the posts move, so much energy and engineering needed to make something sound right.
The fact that a whole new recording technology is necessary to record DSD is of course another strike against it.
Like I said, PCM done right is adequate in my opinion, but the as usual it does take a lot of optimization to get it right.
posted in error
Edits: 09/13/15
What problem are you referring to? I'm not following you.
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