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In Reply to: RE: Digital music posted by Todd Krieger on June 05, 2015 at 10:19:55
CD isn't even close to Hi Rez, either from a computer/Dac, or an HAP Z1- type File Player.
Follow Ups:
I'll continue to collect vinyl and CDs because mastering matters to me. I'll choose the best master (or remaster) version over the highest rez version any day o' the week. Hi Rez is only worth pursuing when it's coupled with the version that I want most.
Red book CDs (16/44.1K) with proper Recording / Mastering can still sounds very good.
I've some red book CDs which still out perform some of mine SACD / Hi-Rez file collections.
YMMV.....
Regards
PS
There was a time where I personally thought the CD was a hopelessly inadequate source medium for high-quality audio playback..... I came ever so close to giving up, thinking it just couldn't cut it.....
I was in Cleveland during the early 1990s. I visited a high-end audio store (now defunct) called Sound Resource. There was a large listening room that had a Wadia 7 CD transport and Wadia 9 DAC. When I listened to that, I couldn't believe I was listening to a CD source. I thought maybe it was a superlative recording I was listening to. Stravinsky's "Petrushka" by Pierre Boulez and the Cleveland Orchestra, on Deutsche Grammophon label. (There were other recordings played, but that one really stood out.)
I promptly bought the CD and played it in my CD rig.... And came to the realization that what I've been using for sources up to that time didn't come close to what CD playback was capable of.
Since that moment, for a long time, I was obsessed in replicating it.... (Remember that 14-DAC shootout I once conducted.) I don't know if I actually did fully replicate it, but the Prism DA-1 and DA-2 DACs came close. (I just couldn't afford a Wadia 7/9 combo. I would have just gotten that if I could.) Then with a modified Philips CDC-935 changer, of all things. (Unless the output stage is upgraded, one wouldn't realize how great the DAC section is in this particular unit.) I've never heard another Wadia 7/9 rig since that moment in Cleveland, which I still think was the best digitized source I've ever experienced.
But in attending audio shows, up to last year (missed this year), I still hear the same deficiencies in CD playback today. I thought over time, the Wadia 7/9 sound would trickle down to common inexpensive gear, but I don't think this has happened. Not even in other expensive units. It's frustrating to no end. (This was why I was bashing gimmick technologies like "24/192 upsampling".) And is why many of us give up and try high-rez or server based audio. Or just stick to vinyl.
So I wouldn't blame anybody for not understanding my infatuation with CD players..... For I might have had a similar sentiment had that "Wadia 7/9 moment" never occurred. (I've been hoping for a similar moment with high-rez playback. But this hasn't happened yet. And don't know if it will happen.)
After many years of being 100% analogue, I've had to admit CD was given an unfairly hard time. It can sound fabulous. As Todd says great CD sounds like vinyl without the noise and it IS hard to find. But you can get amazing results.As for high-rez I personally cannot hear any significant differences. I was a very early adopter of SACD and found it too colored. Even high-rez files seem like a marginal improvement to me, at best. Could just be my ears, but in any case, I've now made peace with Redbook and actually love it.
Edits: 06/06/15 06/07/15
I understand your infatuation with so called 'hi rez'.
It's called 'The Emperor's new clothes'.
"A lie is half-way around the world before the truth can get its boots on."
-Mark Twain
I love Hi Rez, made direct comparisons.
CDs are OK.
Skeptics are in love with their Ideas.
No reason to check out anything else.
Enjoy your Box.
You know, the one you live in to avoid anything new.
I've tried a few SACD sources in my systems, but nothing recently.... But I have listened to quite a few over the years on other systems.... But it's always the same story: In the first five minutes, I think "It sounds fabulous, why am I choosing to miss out on this?".... In the next five minutes, I think "Why am I losing interest in the performance?"..... In the next five minutes, I think "No mas! I must shut it down." .... I feel as if my ears have undergone a root canal.....
This isn't just SACD, but any high-rez source I've listened to. (I also react this way listening to switching amplifiers. I also reacted this way once at a live gig, which used mainly digitized gear.)
I get this reaction listening to a lot of CD rigs too.... But oddly, not so much with MP3 or lower resolution sources. (I think this could be why people in the mainstream have gravitated to MP3 and other low-rez formats.)
I think RFI emissions is to blame, but I don't know unequivocally.
for audio playback of discs. I believe this is the difference. My last CD/DVD-A player was Muse's best and it sounded natural, dynamic and musical. The Muse player even beat Ayre's top player on providing a natural, musical presentation when I owned both. I finally replaced the Muse with a tricked out Mac mini that matched/exceeded the Muse in many areas but still had a sort of subliminal electronic quality that even a good DAC couldn't completely eradicate. All that changed when I added an Antipodes server in place of the Mac mini. The design/construction of the Antipodes prioritizes the elimination of noise throughout every step of the process and, even into even a modest DAC (Metrum Hex) exceeds what I have found CD to offer.
/
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"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few." Shunryo Suzuki
Thank you for the information everyone. I am still very unsure what to do now. For a while I was thinking of going with a PS directstream and use my computer, but now I am not sure. If playing via a computer compromises sound quality, then I have to rethink my plan. I thought that going digital would simplify my life, but it seems to be just as complicated.
The quality of "ripping" is affected by computer hardware, software, degragmentation, etc??
"Going Digital" is, by any definition, complicated.
If you're looking to "simplify things" look elsewhere.That said: I'm a music lover/audiophile with over 40 very active years of participation. I've been on the same road you are contemplating for nearly a year - following a few false starts over the past several years.
I've read this entire thread and have come up with this:
***Carefully read and consider everything "Sordidman" has offered. It is very straightforward info w/o much personal bias or misinfo. You can start small/less complicated and expand.***
What you end up with is up to you and what best meets YOUR needs. What mine looks like is a "transport" in the form of an Auralic Aries, then a DAC/preamp feeding my amplifier(s) which drives the speakers. For now I have a USB drive plugged directly into the Aries. I control the whole show via an app on an iPad, including streaming Tidal via Wi-Fi. Amazingly effective and addictive. I'm listening to more and more varied music than ever. I'm getting great sound and am seriously contemplating letting go of my analog front end and records - shear heresy just a few months ago.
I very well may go the NAS route in the future. It has it's advantages, but I'll do it when I'm ready and have good reason to.
This is, no doubt, "The Future." Best of luck to you on your journey. What you're doing now is same as what I do when I start a project - go into "research mode" and soak up and process as much as I can on the given topic, a very good way to start.
ps: The SACD player route is a blind corner/dead end - already antiquated/very limited.
Enjoy!
Edits: 06/22/15 06/22/15 06/22/15 06/22/15
Thank you for the advice. I appreciate the input and I appreciate you taking the time to make your recommendation, doak. But after much contemplation and research, I have decided to go the SACD route. I want something simple, I don't want to download and go between formats, etc. I HATE computers and I know that I will end up being even more frustrated than I am now. Again, thank you everyone for your participation in this discussion.
I can very honestly state: "I understand completely."I have a love/hate thing going with computers, though it's mostly hate.
The Auralic Aries has helped in this respect. However, it remains a small, dedicated computer and computers are still involved with downloading, processing, ripping, etc.Enjoy!
Edits: 06/23/15
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