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In Reply to: RE: best tweak for digital I have come across. posted by wolfy on April 22, 2015 at 12:23:29
Hi
during many years i tried some tweaks on CDs and in particular:
1) marking pen on the edge
2) demag gun
3) various sprays for cleaning
4) putting the cd in the fridge
5) balancing ring
6) balancing disk
What shocked me deeply was the fact that any tweak changed the sound from the original un-tweaked, in some case in a very remarkable way.
This is unacceptable and also stressing in the long term.
So i decided to take the streamer/pc audio route.
Again stress but different and more bearable in the end.
So i think that problem is the optical medium and the reading process.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 04/24/15Follow Ups:
.
http://www.stereophile.com/cdplayers/480/
This article found after experience with simple portable.
I'm not joking, expensive CD players biggest scam in the history of recorded music.
But you could say that about most any component type or cable type and many speakers too.
So?
Many innocent non-technical music lovers are upgrading their gear, buying remastered reissues of their favorite music without realizing being victims of the big digital scam. Digital is NO HIGH FIDELITY and never will be despite upgrading ad infinitum.
So..... Just a warning, no more.
Vinyl, a good simple valve amp and open baffles or big loudspeakers will do.
If I thought you had even an inlkling of well-trained ears I'd ask, "You wanna' bet?"But based on your last statement, it sounds like way too much of a crapshoot.
Edits: 05/01/15
Stehno,The only choice I have to hear recordings of my favorite music is:
VINYL and CD. (no SACD, no choice, dead medium)(sucks to)
Normal musiclovers have no access to mastertapes or studiotapes.
After 25 years of CD's, upgrading, buying reissues "from the original mastertapes" I came to the conclusion that digital is a big mistake soundwise.Let the goero's talk, let the technical people talk. It helps to pass the time, but resolves nothing for the musiclovers that are conned.
Edits: 05/01/15
In the general sense, you are correct about CD's dismal performance, including higher rez formats too.
But if you were being completely intellectually honest, you would also admit that your preferred vinyl format is only marginally better, if that.
Agreed?
I mean, if you hate 5-week old stale bread, is 4-week old stale bread really that much better?
Agreed.
Unfortunately CD's are no replacement for my vinyl.
In the beginning I thought so but it turned out to be a disappointment.
Spend a lot over the years just to find out it's a major setback soundwise.
A convenient setback however.
All tales about upgrading, reissues, tweaking: all big wishfull thinking.
Again, I stick to vinyl for relaxed listening to my favorite music, the only format for the mass consumer with glorious analogue music. CD's for casual listening in the car, kitchen, garden.
I am a mass consumer just like anybody and analogue vinyl is the only way to go, reel to reel, cassettes virtually extinct.
I think that anybody must be able to buy a good setup that is satisfying.
Regarding digital this is not possible, I know nobody who is satisfyed and the ones that upgrade and tweak are temporary satisfied.
I'm glad to hear you agree. Most could not.
But if so, why be so dogmatic over 4-week old stale bread vs 5-wekk old stale bread?
What if I can prove you wrong about digital? Not the digital's actual that you've already heard thousands of time, but digital's potential unlike anything you've ever heard? Even using Redbook only 60's music like The Tokens "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" circa 1961 or Diana Ross and the Supremes' "Baby Love"?
What's in it for me if I can demonstrate digital's potential roughly the equivalent of 1-day old bread (not stale)?
Stehno,
I know the potential of CD's. My own piano and guitar recordings on CD-r via computer are perfect, on cassette it sucks, especially piano. Soundwise, musically speaking I still prefer cassettes.
My favorite music is from the fifties, bluegrass, r&r, r&b, country and opera, piano, violin concerto's. Full dynamics, natural sound, especially mono.
CD reissues give me headache, modern recordings also, no dynamics, much too much manipulation, reverb, compression.
The only thing I wanted to say and see response is: digital is not HIFI and doesn't top my best analogue recordings and now I know that I'm not the only one, so my mind is at ease, time for music now, have a good weekend.
All that technical talk, all technical talk about one isolated item from the guru's doesn't resolve anything. Digital is inherently defective, it's in my opinion a big scam especially the expensive gear and all the promises, advertisements. Do you remember the men in spacesuit's at the manufacturing plants when CD's were the new hot thing ? A big con.
CDs almost never sound as good as a standard cassette. Tape is a natural medium. It breathes. Even going to the extreme with CD treatments, isolation, the whole nine yards, CDs by and large sound hollow, deaden, thin, boomy, compressed, threadbare and sick.
hardly,
Cassettes also analogue!
For the innocent consumer nowaday's the choice to get their favorite music is CD or VINYL. Cassettes almost distinct here. SACD sucks to, dead medium also.
Normal consumers like me go to the shop for CD and VINYL because the good choice of music.
Mastertapes, Studiotapes not for the consumer, special hifi recordings be it CD, download, vinyl or whatever consists of lousy music or test "muzak".
But CD's are not HIGH FIDELITY as I wrote earlier. It hurts my ears and brain.
Nothing wrong with vinyl. It is also an inherently good medium, like tape. But cassette tape is much more dynamic especially on portable systems. You don't get all the distortion caused by much wire, cables, Transformers, capacitors, fuses, House AC. It's SO obvious. CDs sound strangled by comparison. Portable cassette players and CD players frequently have their own built in isolation systems, e.g., oil filled dampers, anti roll capability, not to mention data buffering.
Edits: 05/02/15
Absolutely right Geoff.
But as consumer there is no choice to buy my favorite music on cassette.
But wonderfull to make my own compilations of absolute favorite music. Own recordings of my piano and guitar satisfying, but piano never without flutter. Recordings on CD-r via computer very good but sonically not really satisfying indeed. Digital misses something, sounds dead unlike analogue.
From 1 kHz on very low level equals very low resolution: CD's , the medium for the masses never HIFI.
Simple, cheap good sound: valves, vinyl, big loudspeakers.
See picture.Every minus 6 dB is 1 bit less resolution.
Now you're getting smart.
;-)
It's either that or spend the rest of my life speculating while pretending to have first-hand knowledge and experience in these forums.
You know what I mean. ;)
I may be a little slow but I'm ahead of you. I went to portables some time ago.God doesn't play with dice.
;-)
Edits: 05/01/15 05/01/15
Why do you call me Good Lord?
For I am a mere mortal like you. Well, sorta' like you.
I prefer my Mac/Mytek, and Sony Hap Z1 to my
Sony 5400/VSE Player, which I liked on CD and SACD.
Good point on CD tweaks, if they all do something, what is
it supposed to sound like?
No tweaks at all on the Mac/Mytek, Z1.
I listen to Hi-Rez Downloads and CDs copied to Desktop, and either converted by Z1 to 2x DSD, or using Audiogate to convert to 2x DSD for the Mytek/Audirvana.
Edits: 04/24/15
Hi and thanks for the very interesting advice
I remember my poor mother really worried when she found a bunch of cds between the meat in the fridge
Even my father gave me some money and told me to go out with friends ... to relax a bit.
Seriously this variability in performance has always puzzled me.
Now i have my collection on a small HD and go with that.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
"I remember my poor mother really worried when she found a bunch of cds between the meat in the fridge
Even my father gave me some money and told me to go out with friends ... to relax a bit. "
Very funny!!! LOL!!!
Nt
Hi why ? are you telling me that you have never demag your cds using for instance a gun like the one depicted ?
Try and listen ... unbelievable.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 04/24/15
Hello. Actually that's an ionizer not a demag device. Sorry about that. :-)THIS is a real ionizer:
Edits: 04/24/15
I did some research a while back (cannot remember where, though, so don't ask) and heard that ions applied in the blow-dryer fashion seem to strip away pretty fast, versus a continuous flow.
How long does the ionizing effect last, in your experience?
Did you do A-B comparisons, say, with the ionized disc at the very end of a long, 70 minute+ disc (say, a Mahler symphony), maybe letting it play straight through up to the start of the very final movement, and then listen to the first 3 minutes or so of that movement and then swap in the non-ionized dupe copy of the Mahler disc, and then skip to that same movement to see exactly how long the treatment lasts? That approach should work well to see if the treatment really is still effective. You could do that with various discs to see exactly, time-wise, where the effect starts to wane.
I can see it immediately benefitting a disc, no doubts there. But over a half hour later in the environment of a spinning motorized CD player? Well, I have my reservations on effectiveness over prolonged play times. I hope it would last, as I would like to employ such technology, but don't want to waste my time on longer playing discs if the effect is (like the car theft movie from the 70's) "Gone in Sixty Seconds", so to speak.
Of course, even if short, one could always just re-do after each movement, I guess, but what a PITA!
Oh, and how long do you shoot the disc with the ionized air for before playing? Both sides the same amount of time?
TIA for any and all info, Geoff.
Cheers,
WS
Depends on the environment. The effects obviously wouldn't persist as long in an environment where there was the potential for relatively high static charge.
... that you haven't tried what I suggested. Which is cool, no problem. But it's all speculative unless somebody actually A-Bs the effect and determines approximately how long it lasts for their set up. Again, I don't buy it lasting too long in a CD player's internal environment, given the dramatic effects reported in many posts where somebody has tried grounding anti-static foam strategically placed around their CD transport and power supply. I know when I used the foam and grounded it, the results were quite evident and beneficial. Maybe that would be a fine combo: anti-static foam with a tourmaline treated CD.
I'll have to think about getting a ion generating blow dryer and giving it a shot. But who wants to stand there and blow-dry their CDs for five minutes before each play? I mean, hot blow jobs are great.... to receive (but NOT to give!) ;-)
I suspect you're over thinking this whole thing. The tourmaline gun has many uses not just CDs, silly. And it only takes about a minute to treat an object, not 5 minutes. The more objects you treat the better the sound. You know, things like interconnects, speaker cables, drapes, carpet, even glass and wood can develop positive static charge over time. Capish? It takes maybe 5 minute to treat the whole room. As I said it depends on the environment how long it takes for the positive static charge to build back up on the objects you treat with the ion gun. Where I live the humidity is moderate to high so the effects of the Particle Accelerator are relatively long lasting.
Edits: 04/26/15 04/26/15 04/26/15
Hi and yes you are right. Poor knowledge of science here.
So i understand you never tried. Good for you.
I tried and got insane for the changes in sound.
Optical medium are shit in my opinion.
Just loot all the discussions on cd transport ... insane.
You need a battleship to play them right...
Better to rip once and store them away.
Kind regards,
bg
No actually, the whole battleship approach is totally wrong. All that stuff kills the sound. The capacitors, the transformer, the semiconductor chips, the big old transport, the power cord, the house AC power, the fuse. What you need is something like this, something without all that stuff:
Edits: 04/25/15 04/25/15
Indeed.
I have 4 cheap chinese portables (Xiron, Marquant) No antiskipping, no opamp for output amplifying obviously, output is 0.7 Volt, more than enough.
The sound is very reminiscent of analogue. It wins from my high end players that i seldom use anymore.I think that the DAC with voltage output and no opamp to ampify further is the secret.
Digital sucks, CD's always have that non musical synthetic sound, all piano's sound like digital piano's, no soul in it. These portables make it all palatable and my conclusion is that expensive CD players, including SACD is a big swindle, the biggest con in recorded music history. Convenient for in the car, obviosly CD's are made for that, alway's compression, before 1995 or so CD's were reasonable.
Edits: 04/27/15 04/27/15
Totally agree. There is no house power, no big toxic transformers, no wiring or fuses that would most likely be installed backwards, no rattling circuit boards, no power cord! no digital cable! all of those things just distort the signal. Portables rule! Expensive headphones are also a rip off. Is it possible these tiny little portables are more tubelike than tubes? How can that be?
Edits: 04/28/15
Hi and thanks for the valubale advice
If you please tell me the exact model number i will look for it for sure
I still have all my ripped cds ... and it would not be the first time that i change opinion.
Thanks a lot.
Kind regards,
bg
If I get home before daylight, I just might get some sleep tonight....
Name that tune!!
-RW-
Is it something by The Jackson Five? Just a guess. "A Friend of the Devil" by The Jackson Five.
Edits: 04/24/15 04/24/15
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