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I have read that the DirectStream DAC requires about 500 hours of break-in before fully coming into its own. At this point I have a little over 100 hours on the unit and have been running it continuously using either the Bridge or my Oppo 105D as the source.
My question is how much and of what nature (resolution, sound stage fleshes-out, etc.) can I expect as break-in continues? The reason I ask is that, as of now, I prefer the sound of the 105D solo versus the DS DAC in the mix. Specifically, I find the Oppo to have a better rendition of low level detail, leading edge transients and upper treble response.
I realize that part of the difference is that the 105D has a higher output level and yes, I have the DS set to its higher output. But when I switch sources between the two which takes about a second and adjust the volume by ear, the differences still exist.
Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.
Joe
Follow Ups:
Joe,
Any more updates on your experience with PSA Vs Oppo?
Would like to hear them, since I was looking to a similar configuration.
Thanks!
The DS DAC continues to open up and improve 430 hours into the break-in process. I try to adjust for volume differences as best I can when switching between the two (105D solo vs. 105D through the DS) and differences continue in my opinion. The Oppo sounds more open while the DS is smoother. When listening to the DS for extended periods of time, I quite honestly forget the differences and just plain enjoy its sound.Still unsure in my own mind whether the DS is worth the incremental cost despite every single laudatory professional review. My latest struggle is getting my PC to talk to the DS directly via USB and am awaiting a call back from PS Audio to see what I'm doing wrong. The USB driver isn't downloading properly.
If you can get the DS with a 30-day return, it'd be worth investigating. Mine was only 14 days and therefore not long enough for the full break-in to occur. But I have decided to keep it.
Joe
Edits: 05/01/15
Joe,
Your post and the subsequent replies it has garnered is of great interest to me as I have been contemplating purchasing a PSA-DSD.
While at RMAF last year my priority was to audition this DAC. For various reasons, while in the PSA room, I was unable to discern what the DAC was doing. Perhaps it was the room, the speakers being used, the new amps, the music and/or just me, the sound did not move me.
Since that time, the price of this DAC has been significantly reduced by a number of dealers and,several specials have been offered to include the one now where you buy the DAC and get a free PSA transport. Had I bought this DAC last year I would not be a very happy camper today.
Furthermore, by my count, there are no less than 10 used PSA-DSD's for sale on Audiogon within the 30 day window of which the lowest asking price is $3,172. And, all this is happening while the ink on all the hype generated by this DAC is barely dry.
Now, I wonder if these events are the result of people such as yourself who have bought this DAC only to discover that it's performance does not quite justify its hefty price tag when compared to more moderately priced player/DAC's such as your Oppo.
I await your thoughts and auditioning results and hope that the 500 hour break in time suggested by some here (a figure I find rather high) does not get bumped to 1,000 just to be sure all is working well....
George
Hi George,
There are a number of things that have brought my enjoyment of the PSA DS DAC up considerably. The sound is changing as the unit breaks in. At this point I have 260+ hours on the unit and the sound is "opening-up" with what seems to me to be a more extended top end.
Upgrading to the Pikes Peak firmware had an immediate effect with a more dynamic sound and more fully fleshed out soundstage.
Finally, the DS has an unbalanced/RCA output of 1.4Vrms versus 2.1Vrms (a 50% increase over the DS) for the 105D. Being a creature of habit, I guess, I was not really compensating for this by adjusting the volume control as much as I should have.
At this point I am quite satisfied with its sound and anticipate it improving further when the DAC is fully broken-in. Already, when I switch between the 105D playing solo versus having it play through the DS via a digital cable, the former now sounds a little edgy and digital in comparison.
Is the difference worth the premium? That's a difficult question and a very individual matter. For me, it now seems to have been worth it.
Regards,
Joe
Joe,
Thanks very much for your response and observations.... I shall stay tuned......
George
/
... the 2.15 update for the Bridge and the 1.2.1 for the DirectStream. Although I will most likely keep the unit it has not been as much of an improvement over the Oppo 105D as I'd hoped. As a matter of fact, when it comes to processing the signal from my Xfinity STB, I prefer the Oppo because the PSA DS has an annoying electronic echo on dialogue at higher volumes.
On the plus side, the PSA DS DAC does very well on RBCDs and has a more analogue-like overall sound when compared to the Oppo.
Joe
Joe,I had a DS for about 9 months when it came out.. It really does need 500 hours.. Also the digital cable will make a big difference, as does the power cord. I'd also most strongly recommend that you upgrade the firmware to Pikes Peak.. it's a lot more dynamic than 1.2.1 it's free and if you don't think it's better you can roll it back to 1.2.1
Also what's the rest of your system like??
Edits: 04/21/15
I've updated the firmware successfully I hope. The readings are now as follows.
Bootloader: 1.13
Firmware: 1.2.3
Bridge: 0.2.15
FPGA: 0.79
USB: 00.06
Rev: Pike
Erik, does this look right to you? I just started listening to it and it does sound better - clearer, but sometimes the ears hear what the mind anticipates.
I appreciate the hand-holding.
Thanks again.
Joe
Joe just keep playing music through it.. 500 hours it'll keep opening up and getting better..
Yup that's correct..
Perfect. Thank you for your help.
Joe
Also make sure you keep the volume control at 100% and make sure you don't have the output attenuator engaged, when listening.. it seems to blunt things a tiny bit.
Also as regards the output attenuator.. it actually speeds up the breaking process if you have it engaged during break in. Ted Smith the designer, mentioned on the PSA user forums a while back that having it engaged adds a resister to the signal path and makes the unit work a bit harder.
Also I'm sure you know that you don't need the whole system on to do the break in just put a CD on repeat and the Dac on and leave it be.. The CJ amp doesn't need to be playing..
All very helpful. Thanks, Erik. I do keep it 100% all the time. I have a signal running through it even when not listening. Most often it'll be my Xfinity STB which is routed through the Oppo and then to the DAC. I'll make sure to engage the attenuator during these non-listening periods.
I don't use the attenuator while listening because one of the adjustments I've had to make during this whole time is that the Oppo outputs 2.1Vrms unbalanced while the PSA DS DAC only outputs 1.4Vrms. Using the attenuator makes the disparity even greater.
Really appreciate your insight and all these tips.
Joe
Thank you for your comments, Erik.
I'm about 170 hours into the burn-in process at this point. I've used first an XLO Signature 3.1 interconnect and now a Kimber D-60 bewteen the Oppo and the PSA. The analoque interconnects going from the PSA to my conrad-johnson CA200 integrated are Acoutic Revive RCA-PA. The power cord on the PSA DS is an Acrolink P4030II with Oyaide C-004/P-004 connectors that was assembled by Alan Kafton, double cryo-genically treated and burned in on his audiodharma Cable Cooker. All my equipment is plugged into his totally excellent Power Wing II.
I had thought that the Pikes Peak firmware update predated their 1.2.1 release. I will have to do that firmware update and will report back.
My entire system can be viewed if you select the (A) next to my name.
Joe
At the price, it should Kill the Oppo.
It's surprising that it doesn't.
Any Computer Playback into PSA?
If you mean the PC hooked up directly into the PSA via USB, then no. I have played files, both standard and high res on my PC via the Bridge but the higher resolution files have a tendency to pause and/or skip. I have played discs and and also files (standard and high res) from an EHD, SSDs, and my Olive O3HD Music Server from the Oppo 105D to the PSA DS using both an XLO Signature 3.1 and Kimber D-60.
I had thought that the 1.2.1 was the most recent update for the DS, as that's what had come with the brand new unit I purchased. According to another poster's comments that I just read, it's the Pikes Peak update that is the most recent. Herein may lie a good deal of what I'm hearing/not hearing and I will have to update the firmware.
Joe
Most components seem to reach full burn-in status between 150 and 200 hours. But there are exceptions to every rule.
My Esoteric CDP took 275 hours and an amplifier took nearly 500 hours. I suspect because of the huge toroidal transformer / power supply.
I'm not surprised in the least about the OPPO's apparent superiority here. From a performance perspective, the 105 can leave you with very little else to be desired.
BTW, have you tried using the OPPO 105's passive volume attenuator direct to the amplifier? The gains from this change alone can be quite surprising and quite a musical jump.
No, have never tried the Oppo 105D directly into my c-j CA200 but it is something to explore. Thank you for the suggestion.
Joe
My pleasure, Joe.
There's a white paper out there somewhere talking about OPPO's use of the supposedly superior SABRE 32-bit DACs for the volume attenuation. On paper, it seems the 32-bit DAC's will provide zero loss of signal unlike other digital and analog volume controlling methodologies.
In my case it was quite a significant gain for several reasons.
1. The enhanced detail of every last instrument, more pristine, delicate, extended, etc. I suspect due to a lowered noise floor and perhaps zero or near zero signal loss.
2. I love dynamics and take great pride in my systems dynamics that I've yet to hear elsewhere. I swore many times I'd never go the passive route for that reason alone. However, upon recently purchasing some 575 wpc mono amps, with an active preamp and amplified gain, the dynamics, especially most any note's initial attack was so in-my-face, that there simply was nothing realistic about it. Frankly, I was experiencing a severe case of electronics-induced jump factor where my ear was maybe 2 feet from the note's initial attack but then my ear was maybe in the first row for the remainder of the note.
Some obviously are impressed with these electronics -induced jump factors but there simply is nothing realistic about them. Not even if you're going back to a 1978 Ted Nugent concert and you're sitting in the front row.
The combination of the OPPO's fabulous passive volume attenuator and the very dynamic 575 wpc amps turned out to be an excellent combination putting all the music back up on the soundstage where it belonged and my ears back in row 5 or 10 where they belonged. And I still have perhaps the most dynamic system I've yet heard, only now it's a more natural and slightly more rounded dynamics from a distance in the audience.
It's nice to see a comparison and I hope things change for the better in the future as the DS DAC is a big investment. There are other factors though. Power cords and the (I assume coax digital) cable between the Oppo and DAC. I just cryo'ed my ten plus year old digital cable and it sounds a lot different now.So my point is there are other factors besides the sound of the DS DAC at play both now and later when you get the reported full break in time achieved.
Good luck, keep reporting.
E
T
Edits: 04/19/15
I appreciate your comments, thank you. As of now, while I await an old school Kimber D-60, I'm using one leg from an XLO Signature 3.1 interconnect as the "digital" cable. My impressions are based both upon that and the Bridge which is internal to the DS DAC.
The power cord I'm using for the PSA DAC is an Acrolink 7N-4030II with Oyaide P-/C-004 connectors. They match well with the Audio Excellence AZ Power Wing II conditioner. There are a number of interconnect/power cords I haven't tried yet. so it remains to be seen.
Joe
i can't offer advice, but that is a useful observation to me. I was thinking about the directstream, I think it better to see a trickle down effect, I am happy with my DSD DAC, and it was only around $700.
The sad thing is there seems to be hype now, for all of these products, such is the awash in marketing and people on message boards raving about equipment, so people click that buy it now button, $6k later if the oppo sounds better to you so be it.
I was able to purchase a brand-new DS DAC at a considerable discount. Even so, to me, it was a considerable investment so I'm listening very carefully. :)There is a very analogue quality to the PSA DAC that's seductive and I can hear why it's so attractive. But so far...
Joe
Edits: 04/19/15
With all the firmware updates it seems to me you are a beta tester for the company. If the original design has needed so many changes why did they put it on the market so soon?
Alan
The Yup was for Joe.
Why make such a lame comment Alan when you're totally clueless?? There have been 3 count them 3 firmware updates since the DS was released a year ago.. And since the DS uses an FPGA instead of an off the shelf Dac chip the new Firmware actually is in essence a new Dac. Would it be better to have a product that can't be upgraded and improved..For free! Would you be happy if your phone or computer or anything that you own that's software driven was never updated or upgraded and the manufacture just told you "oh well it's not 100% but we can't do anything about it" No I don't think you'd be real happy about that..
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