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In Reply to: RE: Dacs with a great bass. posted by beppe61 on April 08, 2015 at 10:25:29
My Counterpoint DA-10A DAC (with Alta Vista Audio "Rapture" 24/96 DAC and power supply upgrade) delivers incredibly deep, clean and articulated bass. I don't know if the "standard" 20 bit DA-10A delivers it since I bought mine used already modified. From the first CD I played through it was obvious it was special. If the recording has great bass, it will deliver it.The transport does matter to a degree, I've used transports / CD players from Denon, Creek, Carver, Sony, Oppo, Audio Alchemy and Musical Fidelity and the last three had a deeper, cleaner bass than the others. I also compared coax vs toslink using the Musical Fidelity and coax seemed to have a clear edge, though toslink did well.
Other factors of course will affect it. Speakers and their placement matters a lot too, as do cables and electronics. But the source components and recording are the most important IMHO, cause if it ain't there to begin with, it ain't happening.
Best regards, Ralph
Edits: 04/15/15Follow Ups:
Hi and thanks a lot for the very interesting advice.
I see that your dac is of the multibit type with the famous ULTRA ANALOG D/A chip.
I just hope that someday someone will start building again multibit dacs.
It is quite clear that they have an edge on dynamics.
And consequently 2nd hand units of classic DACs like yours are rare and very expensive.
I was reading and article about the new multibit from Schiit Audio, mentioning that the DA chip used is expensive at 100 USD/each.
If the reward is very good sound i could pay 100 USD more for sure.
However the fact that old dacs are better than new ones is just shocking.
What they are doing ?
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 04/15/15
I've listened to Schitt DACs and found them to sound pretty good. I also think the sound of my Oppo universal player's DAC is quite good. Not in the league of my Counterpoint, but they compare well and deliver satisfying sound. The Oppo BDP-103 sounds great and at about $ 500.00 it's a steal.
I haven't heard enough modern DACs to say if they aren't as good as my DA-10A, but from my limited experience there's some good sounding options out there. I've seen Counterpoint DA-10s on E-Bay going for $700 to $800. Un-modified. I've never seen a "Raptured" DAC on sale there, though.
Best regards, Ralph
Hi and thanks a lot again for the very valuable advice.
Main discussion is about the dynamics available from sigma-delta dac chips being quite inferior to old multibit dacs.
With the outcome that sound from old multibits is much more realistic even if maybe less refined and precise ?
Strange the switch of the Counterpoint designer from UltraAnalog multibit to a new sigmadelta chip.
I would not do that on the basis of what i have learned here.
The good old dacs are very rare in the 2nd hand market, and this should mean something. Or sold for big money.
But if the new multibit dac from Schiit will be very successfull i am sure many other will follow. I am absolutely sure of that.
So i think that this dac could be epochal. Some kind of a milestone.
The revenge of multibits !
Above all other things it promises to give a never heard sound from cds !!!
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 04/15/15
DOn't think the Ultra analog chip is made anymore. The key to their sound was that designers and the users if equipt to do so, could pick from one of seven decoding algorithms to alter the sound.
Only Spectral offered that user option however.
Incidentally for good bass the best IIRC was the older Stax player.....
Hi and thanks for the valuable advice.
If i understand well you mean that the very good dynamics are the result of some kind of DSP carried-out with special decoding algorithms that alter the sound ?
i was thinking more that is the multibit nature of the dac chip that gives this exciting performance.
Changing subject a little but not much i was amusing to read that the dac chip used in the last Schiit dac is too good for audio.
Too good for audio ? a sector in which some dacs cost tenth of thousand of dollars too good for those units ?
or also ... too expensive at 100 USD/each ...
what are 100 USD in the high end ? is nothing !
I would be extremely willing to spend 100 USD more to have a top of the class dac chip in my converter.
Sometimes i read weird things.
Anyway i listened to some ess based dac and in the end i found them unexciting ... maybe clean, noiseless, defined ... but flat also.
And i see many of them on sale 2nd hand.
Instead i have hear a ridicoulusly priced 1543 dac that i like.
Maybe a little gross but also musical.
I will try it out soon with a better lab grade power supply i am waiting.
This is not good. The music must excite. Always.
I hope this new dac from Schiit will show the way to all others.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 04/16/15 04/16/15
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