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65.27.245.220
Wow! I'll say that again, WOW! Recently a dear friend upgraded and he generously provided me with his castoff as a long loaner. I've had a few nice (so I thought) CD players/transports-Dacs. I think among the Tjoeb, Audio Note 1.0 dac/ Theta transport, and others, the AN/Theta combo was best. But, and this a big but, they were dated even when I used them. I pretty much abandoned digital in favor of LPs and was very content, thank you very much, that is, until today. This is where the Cary comes in. The Pro, I think, came out in 2008 and, as such, it's not exactly hot off the presses. However, when I plugged it in and connected it in my system today. I was astounded at how good CDs and my system sounded. Now I have a modest vinyl setup, Thorens TD 125 w/ a Grado TLZ and a Technics SL 1200 and Zu DL-103 but most of the LPs I have sound pretty good but the Cary, sounds better. As soon as I put the Cary in the system, I heard what the Audio Note E's could do in the bass. The foundation of the music that I didn't know was not there showed up. The highs were extended and smooth and altogether beguiling. I'm amazed at how good the system sounds with Cary in it. Vinyl still has its moments and glories but I now hear what digital devotees love about digital done right. Only one thing to do...upgrade the analog playback system to keep up with Cary!
Follow Ups:
I sent my 306 Pro in to Cary a couple years back. Cary swapped out a couple of the critical capacitors for much higher quality parts. Made a very nice improvement in the sound. If I recall, it only cost a couple hundred dollars for the new caps. I would suggest contacting Cary to find out what upgrades they can do.
Enjoy the music.
Excellent!
I'm not trying to be negative and I am happy you found a digital player you can stomach. Lord knows that opens you up to the majority (90%? +) of music made the last 25 years or so.So I have a MF Trivista and my friend had the Cary you speak of. Although the Cary had more playback mode options w/sample rate options not on the MF we both found the Rebook better on the MF and by a good bit. We even swapped power cords and other things to make sure.
SACD playback was even as we saw it. Both are built like trucks but many know the MF came w/ a Philips transport prone to fail with NO support from Philips. Mine is now a Redbook DAC.
My point in posting is that there are good things out there now and they are more affordable than when these two $6,000 + players came out some ten plus years ago.
Find a dealer that has a loaner program or a full refund period of 30-60 days and try something new. AC delivery is really important for good digital playback so anything from the mains panel to the IEC on the player you can improve is advised.
Good luck!
E
T
Edits: 03/15/15
> > So I have a MF Trivista and my friend had the Cary you speak of. Although the Cary had more playback mode options w/sample rate options not on the MF we both found the Rebook better on the MF and by a good bit. We even swapped power cords and other things to make sure. < <
Cary higher sampling rate options could certainly make these players sound smoother, perhaps that's advantageous considering the massive library of existing crappy mastered CDs, but when fed top sounding software, they still produced an overly soft and somewhat hazzy/foggy type sound, more & more obvious at the freq. extremes.
> > My point in posting is that there are good things out there now and they are more affordable than when these two $6,000 + players came out some ten plus years ago. < <
Well, that's not really meaningful, considering many more affordable, but superior sounding alternatives existed even in 2006, plus well prior. Hell, tho the 306 was good, it was bettered by Cary's own dedicated CDPs at less cost. The MF trivista/nuvista's (I actually considered purchasing a nuvista) were the ONLY MF players I'd heard that I actually liked; in general, I've never found MF CD players $onically competitive.
I can think of MANY players, over the last 15 years, that proved superior. IMO, neither of these two players were "benchmark" type performers, then, pre and post, at the $6k price point.
tb1
I just checked your profile. Do you still have it?
around 2005/6, the power supply failed, so I had to make a choice ... invest $,$$$ in fixing (Linn fixes are never cheap) or buy an alternative CDP.
Funny, even back then, I got the same questionable advice as many claim today; that since the Ikemi was a dated model ... cheaper, more current alternatives would easily sound superior.
So I decided to audition newer ~$2-6k players that were available to me. I short-listed only the few that managed to perform well within my system. But in the end, considering these players were all ~$4-6K, it became clear that the cost of fixing the Ikemi was a better alternative.
I sent it to Linn, they fixed the power supply, and I also got 'em to replace the laser at the same time (the old laser was fine, but I figured this was a cost effective/opportunistic measure).
What I really appreciate about the Ikemi, even nearing two decades later; considering my turntable offers a much richer/warmer tonality, in contrast, the Linn a much leaner disposition (even compared to most CDPs) ... yet it remains one of the very few CDPs which made my recorded/ripped CDRs sound "near" identical to my turntable.
Plus, it's a top HDCD performer ...
tb1
there certainly something to be said about a strong company that keeps going and look after their legacy products.
I thought they were stopped servicing Ikemi and CD12 but perhaps that was when they lost the US distributors and in a state of flux ( before it went to Tannoy Canada and now it seems they are dealing direct )
I thought of replacing my Krell, too but I looked around and nothing really could replace it. ( except the Naim CD555 which I find voiced very similar to my 'Naimed' LP12 )
Krell still service the kps25s after all these years, too!
The trend is now on a separate DAC ( we came a full circle from the 90s :/ ) but I am still not fully convinced that file based system is the way to go. They sound different than better than my CD players.
I could see using it to stream high res. vinyl rips to conserve a cartridge life, tho.
Kuma, I'd just like to add my 0 cents (Canadian) ...> > I am still not fully convinced that file based system is the way to go. < <
Well, despite what I've heard (still a bit limited in scope) ... my intent, my next venture into digital, will be computer/DAC driven. The convenience factor(s) alone, I consider worth the effort.I plan on a dedicated notebook running a very lean Linux OS. The DAC, I have no real working knowledge at this point, although the Ayre quickly comes to mind. The thing is, I'm no longer willing to spend an arm and a leg on any digital format (reserving my future/largest expenditures 4analog).
Granted, the Ikemi wasn't cheap, but it was over-overwhelmingly the second best player I'd heard, plus the "precision" proprietary built Linn transport/pulse based power supply, w/BB HDCD DACs, fully balanced design, SMD motherboard ... so at the time ... compared to the competition, I considered it's co$t/build quality/performance ratio justifiable.
Still do today, BUT ... now I think the DAC should represent the majority of the total cost. It should be an interesting, perhaps fun (sigh) comparison, comparing a computer/dac directly against a well designed, proven one-box player ...
tb1
Edits: 03/17/15
Most of their other products sound really dry and sterile to me...except the turntable which sounds a bit too sloppy...perhaps that goes well together but not my way of system matching.
Oh, I did also kind of like the Linn Kelidh speaker at one time...but I heard it again some years later and it did not hold up to further scrutiny.
Thanks! for sharing- morricab.
T-bone --
Yeah, the engineer in me has always loved the quality engineering and manufacturing that went into the Ikemi. The whisper-quiet metal CD drawer is the outer indicator of the quality inside.
The audiophile in me fell in love with the sound. (In fact, Dvorak Symphony #9 plays in the background as I type... :))
Having both an Ikemi and an Ayre DAC in my system, I can tell you that they both sound superb. Both get daily use here. I'm sure there are other DACs out there that can compete as well. Enjoy the hunt!
Cerebrate!
> > Having both an Ikemi and an Ayre DAC in my system < <
Nice!
Some time ago, I demo'd an Ayre CDP and was very impressed. The Ayre had a very transparent liquid type nature which instantly reminded me of the Linn CD12, and I can honestly say that's one of the best compliments I can throw at any player. In fact, it sounded more like the CD12 than the Ikemi did in that particular aspect, although the Ikemi held it's own advantages in direct comparison (esp w/HDCD).
Ever since that demo, I've had Ayre on my short list ... although I also very much like the sound of SIM digital also ...
Q's ...
Have you used the Ikemi as a transport for the Ayre DAC?
Is the Ayre DAC fed by computer?
regards,
tb1
> > Have you used the Ikemi as a transport for the Ayre DAC? < <
Silly question considering the Ayre is a USB dac (at least to my knowledge).
re: Ikemi as transport
Nope, not used that way. The Ayre DAC is USB-only, fed from a Mac Mini, with Pure Music as the player.
Cerebrate!
for your reply, as seen above, I realized my mistake not long after posting.
I asked because I always anticipated the possibility that I might use the Ikemi as a quality transport for a future DAC ...
tb1
I understand completely. When I purchased the Ayre, I had the same concern. At the time (some 5-6 years ago now?), I was trying to build the best sounding music server I could manage with my limited skills and time. The Mac Mini plus Ayre DAC gave me a nice turnkey solution. I like appliances. :)
If I was doing it over today, I would enjoy the auditioning process, and perhaps make different choices. But for the moment, that part of my system is stable. Enjoy the hunt for your DAC!
Cerebrate!
Which model was the best spinner for Linn?
daily.
Cerebrate!
Looking over your profile, you own a nice system. I, too, am a CJ fan.
Good question, but don't ask me... :)
I have heard good things about the CD12, and other Linn spinners, but the Ikemi is the only one I have heard in my system.
Cerebrate!
Are you still using the IKemi?
Like an analogue playback, everything matters from the very beginning to the end of the file playing/streaming. In some sense, I found it's daunting in terms of variables.
But a good DAC should get you going.
I've done a very limited comparison a few years ago but would be nice to try it again.
A true test for me is to play a vinyl rip from my turntable to see how close a digital playback comes to the real thing.
Good luck and have fun.
Hi Kuma ...
When other audiophiles visit, I tend to always get the same reactions towards the Linn. It's too small to be good, too old to be viable, and certainly no longer competitive to be equal to today's options; generally they spout off prose concerning some "superior" flavour-of-the-month product they too insist (go figure) is the "best" they've ever heard. I then play em an uncompressed HDCD, sit back and watch there reactions; which are usually bound in disbelief & silence. The vast majority of audiophiles have never heard Linn digital - outside a Linn system.
> > I thought of replacing my Krell, too but I looked around and nothing really could replace it. ( except the Naim CD555 which I find voiced very similar to my 'Naimed' LP12 )Krell still service the kps25s after all these years, too! < <
Kudo's to Krell. Actually, I auditioned the Krell Standard, had it on my short list along with Naim, Ayre & SIM players. I never considered replacing the Ikemi with separates ...
> > The trend is now on a separate DAC ( we came a full circle from the 90s :/ ) but I am still not fully convinced that file based system is the way to go. They sound different than better than my CD players. < <
They certainly do sound different.
Funny, I purchased the Ikemi at a time when separates were being pushed as the superior sounding digital alternatives. I stayed in the minority, because the vast majority of separates I'd auditioned never sounded all that enticing to me, even tho separates were considered much more "hi-end". Linn actually dropped their transport/DAC line in place of one-box players during a time when separates were becoming very popular.
As a side note, based on my title; check out the link below ...
tb1
2 points are salient:
1. It's much better than what I was using and
2. It was FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Free! That is my favorite price! In your shoes, I'd be listening to the Cary too! Enjoy!
Dave
Wow! Free? That's excellent! FYI it is also a great candidate for a passive linestage. 3V out unbalanced. Tame it with a mellow power cord and better isolation footers. Enjoy! Played an SACD yet? That's where I found it best.
But get a "real" SACD originally recorded in DSD not just an old recording put on SACD.
E
T
I, too, would be interested in the DAC chip(s) used in the trivista, Parasound, Cary and Aesthetix.
I can't remember which one(s) but it also has a tube output stage.
E
T
Much Thanks!
BillyBen-
good to read about another huy enjoying CD / SACD playback.
Tell me, what player did your dear friend update/upgrade in his rig?
Aesthetix Romulus. He raves about it and says it crushes the Cary. To me, the Cary sounds very, very good. I think my best Lps may still edge out my best cds in overall musical enjoyment for me but the Cary is really a wonderful sounding cd player. I don't miss my vinyl when I'm listening to it and that says it all.
Having heard both players, Aesthetix & Cary, the Romulus is better on CD playback. The Cary will spin SACD.
> > Having heard both players, Aesthetix & Cary, the Romulus is better on CD playback. < <
I heard a Romulus relatively recently in a demo, smooth, warm and quite musical, yet I came away thinking it a little slow footed with "rounded" instrumental impact. Perhaps it was more the system it was slaved within, but either way, that demo, although still impressive, was not my cup of tea sonically.
tb1
tb1-
what was the other gear in that system during your demo?
Hi maybe we have found another top quality dac chip ?
Thanks for the information
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 03/14/15
In the same vein, the Parasound CD1, is no slouch either for CD playback.
Hi and thanks for the reply
So you mean that the reason of good sound is hardly the PCM1792 ?
I have been obsessed by the dac chips discussions
The good old ones are rare as the gold
They should make again chips like the PCM63, even the UltraAnalog ... they would sell it like bread.
This is what i do not understand really. If something is so damned good, why stop producing it ?
Maybe charging more but there will be ALWAYS a big demand.
Maybe diamonds are cheap ? and still they sell them.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 03/15/15
Second note;
I feel many companies, Sony & Pioneer, lose focus over time.
Great points-bg.
Hi and thanks and i assume that i am in the right direction
So the search is on. They are very very rare ... but i have hopes.
Thanks again for the valuable confirmation about the multibit dacs' sonic superiority.
Kind regards,
bg
The newest players from Yamaha is receving really great press on their SACD players as well.
Hi and actually i need a dac. A good player but with digital inputs would work just fine of course, like the Cary Audio for instance.
I still believe that a musical dac at reasonable price should be possible.
If not the design is bad. Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
> > I was astounded at how good CDs and my system sounded. Now I have a modest vinyl setup, Thorens TD 125 w/ a Grado TLZ and a Technics SL 1200 and Zu DL-103 but most of the LPs I have sound pretty good but the Cary, sounds better. < <Unlike a very good CDP, many a turntable, esp. w/entry level turntable/arms/carts are hamstrung trying to reproduce the extended frequencies properly. Sometimes the differences are eye-opening, in terms of understanding the TRUE potential of your vinyl rig. In that light, my CDP performance forced me to improve my turntable in response.
That said, I'm very much aware of digitals sonic limitations (and analogs limitations) in comparison. Fed the best mastered software, top vinyl SHOULD outperform the Cary (which I've heard) but it wouldn't come cheap (and very dependent on setup & experience).
The overall problem I have with digital is the limited amount of high quality, non limited/compressed music + the CD format took years to mature sonically. It wasn't until 1998 that I first heard a CDP really sing. Actually, that was when I first realized redbook could in fact reproduce the freq.extremes properly, which I didn't think possible based on EVERY cdp I'd heard prior.
But considering the majority of crappy mastered/sounding CD's, it didn't take long within most audiophile circles, to generally blame all "redbook" as inferior to vinyl. That was perhaps true 18 years ago ...
tb1
Edits: 03/13/15
I don't agree that the CD format "took years to mature sonically".... The format itself was fine from the get-go, there has not been a lot of rigs out there that give satisfactory results.
In fact, due to the lack of satisfactory CD playback, I believe CDs later on were optimized for the compromised playback at large. But on a good rig, some of the best sounding CDs I've heard came out during the first decade of production.
I also think the best CD playback was from the "20-bit 8x oversampling" era of the 1990s. But I haven't heard the really recent gear, which may be vastly improved relative to the products of just a few years ago.
the CD format is still far to be completely understood, at least on the playback side.
Maybe the filters ? maybe the output stage ? maybe the jitter ?
maybe the weather ... and so on.
Let's be frank ... the digital is a real mess.
If not almost every cd player would sound at least musical and in the end satisfactory, like it is always the case with just decent turntables.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 03/16/15
> > If not almost every cd player would sound at least musical and in the end satisfactory < <
not certain this is a fair statement ... considering no CDP I`ve ever heard, at any cost, could remaster a poorly mastered CD.
Hi do you mean that the main problem is actually in the masters' quality ?
That cds produced from good masters sound good on all at least decent cd players ?
This is very important for me to understand.
Thanks a lot.
Kind regards,
bg
I had owned/tried/heard a variety of cdp/separates from 1983 to 1998, some better than others; but having been a long term vinyl guy, my expectations were never matched by any cdp I'd witness. The bit wars, to my ears, made CDs sound worse in general.
I can think of a number of cheaper 16bit chipped players which I preferred over the top-of-the-line very expensive 20bit8x (IIRC) Denons. Those Denons sounded broken compared to an Ariston rd11, yet they flew of the shelves.
That said, the first CDP I witnessed which could replicate proper instrumental impact, such as hard hit cymbal (even today most struggle) or dig out subterranean bass, while still sounding transparently musical & 3D, especially at higher SPL, was indeed a 20,8x player. It was also $30K ...
As for the CD software, some of the earliest cds did in fact sound better. As the popularity of cd gained acceptance, generally, they became more & more compressed. My current cd library = ~500, but I'd say less than 50 are demonstrably "hi-end" within my system. Most make my system sound no different (actually worse because of the much wider sonic window) than a moderately priced mid-fi system.
Pre 1998, I hated CD with a passion that only the simple minded Teresa could understand, till I heard differently ...
tb1
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