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In Reply to: RE: Schiit Yggdrasil - a real game changer ? posted by beppe61 on March 09, 2015 at 04:15:35
I see nothing about the Yggdrasil that might make it a "real game changer". The AD5791 D/A chip doesn't feature THD (an A.C. specification) commensurate with it's native 20-bit conversion unit. As I recall, it's THD is around a16-bit level. Which, while probably low enough to not be perceptable, does not qualify as a game changing feature of the chip. The AD5791 features a wide bandwidth low noise, and good D.C. specifications such as integral linearity and monotonicity, which are important for many non-audio applications. THD is probably the main spec. which is most important for an audio DAC.The long out of production PCM63 and the AD1862 were also 20-bit D/A chips, but those were optimized for audio use, so, merely utilizing a native 20-bit conversion architecture could not make this a game changer. In addition, the designer of the Yggdrasil, Mike Moffat, has stated that he needed to take special effort to suppress the glitch energy of the AD5791. In short, should the Yggdrasil prove uniquely musical sounding, it wouldn't seem to be due to any openly revealed or readily visible technical element. As always, thorough auditioning before purchase would be in order.
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Ken Newton
Edits: 03/09/15 03/09/15 03/09/15Follow Ups:
Hi and thanks a lot for the very valuable advice.
So it seems that the vintage way is winning.
Problem is that they are quite scarce in the 2nd hand market and i guess for a reason.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
I would not say that the vintage way is winning. For example, DSD features the most extreme form of modern Sigma-Delta conversion yet many listeners feel that DSD is winning the perceived sound quality battle. In general, Sigma-Delta DAC chips easily surpass full native resolution DAC chips in terms of THD performance. My opinion is that implementation details override the particular underlying technology employed. I know that audio consumers desire a clear shopping list of features and technologies, which when found, will provide guranteed listening pleasure. Unfortunately, I know of no such guaranteed list. Thorough auditioning remains the only sure way.
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Ken Newton
Edits: 03/09/15
"My opinion is that implementation details override the particular underlying technology employed."
YES!
While general opinions are intrinsically noisy, you've just stated my own view of all things home-audio from a discrete passive part to the whole system including it's environment.
Throw in the sensitivities and tastes of the user and here we are with an enjoyable, interesting and challanging hobby.
Regards, Rick
Hi i understand
But then why select a such expensive part ? the dac chip is around 100 USD/each ... you can buy 10 good other chips with the some money i read.
If we give credit to the designer i think that the dac chip selection is key for the overall outcome. This high precision quality that i do not understand of course completely but that can be a key issue.
Of course it is not the only factor but a very important one.
Kind regards,
bg
"But then why select a such expensive part ?"
Well... because the part IS important, it's the "heart" of the design, the place where the actual conversion occurs and how well it does that forms an upper limit on how well the product works. But that doesn't mean that it stands alone, not remotely. Electronic products are systems and most, including audio ones are largely in series. i.e. they operate on the signal sequentially. A common analog is to think of them as links in a chain.
But it's more complex than that as there are also all sorts of latteral interactions via power rails, radiation, heat. etc. Details in in implementation, layout, grounding, shielding etc make significant differences especially if you are aiming for especially good performance. That's why I really appreciate reviews with pictures of the boards and interior construction, they give me a pretty good clue of how well the product's implemented.
The bottom line is that the DAC chip(s) determine how good it can work, the rest determines how good it DOES work.
Rick
Hi and thanks a lot again for the very precious advice.
I was amused when i read that Analog Devices engineers consider their chip too precise for audio purpose.
Anyway it could be that the secret of good sound is somewhere else, like in the filters. Let's wait and see.
One thing is sure. Digital is still quite unknown and this is very strange to me, after more than 30 years ... unbelievable.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 03/11/15
Hi and thanks a lot again
DACs are my current obsession ...
I have the strong feeling that a decent pc with the right usb to spdif converter can give a quite good digital out.
Problem is the dac. I will keep on reading anyway.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
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