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In Reply to: RE: "the PS Audio DirectStream DAC acts also as pcm to dsd upsampler" posted by Chris from Lafayette on February 14, 2015 at 17:34:47
All digitized audio processing generates ultrasonic noise..... And RFI..... This is why I think higher resolution playback (regardless of it's PCM, DSD, etc.) hinders with the enjoyment of music.
(Unlike typical 24/192 upsampling, DSD upsampling is all synchronous conversion. Should be devoid of the sonic ills of 24/192 upsampling.)
I'll eventually listen to this DAC.... If it's indeed a breakthrough, I might consider it in future plans.
Follow Ups:
DSD noise clearly shows up on most spectrographs (unless the pass band is filtered and limited to CD resolution - about 22 KHz), whereas the PCM noise you're asserting is present does NOT show up - at least I've never seen it.
Moreover, most listeners do NOT agree with you that hi-rez playback hinders the enjoyment of music. I know I certainly don't.
Hi Mr. Krieger !
i remember some old comments of yours about the remarkable impact of digital filters on sound.
From what i understand upsampling pcm to dsd, above all other things, allows for the use of " better sounding" analog filters.
Even if the upsampling process can generate noise if the noise is out of the audio band (i.e. ultrasonic) can be quite easily filtered out ?
The first reviews of the dac are quite positive by the way.
Kind regards,
bg
"Even if the upsampling process can generate noise if the noise is out of the audio band (i.e. ultrasonic) can be quite easily filtered out ?"
It's not that simple.... The frequencies immediately above the audible band aren't the problem..... But the digital switching sends noise all the way to RF, which has been extremely difficult to filter out. (If you place an AM radio near a typical DAC, you'll hear RF interference on the radio.) The problem is the close proximity of analog electronics picks up this RF hash, and modulates the audio signal with it.
The best way to filter out the RFI is to isolate the active digital circuitry from the remainder of the system. Including use of optic lines wherever possible, isolation at the mains, and tube electronics. (And powering down any active digital audio devices when playing the FM tuner, vinyl, or analog tape.)
There hasn't been a method to knock the RFI down completely, save for playing analog media (cassettes, LPs, etc.) of digitized music- The RFI only occurred at the studio. Since the first "digital" recordings were digitally mastered LPs, the initial reaction to digital audio (Telarc/Soundstream) was ravingly positive. Nobody realized the ills of digitized audio until the digital processing was taking place in the end users' systems.
Miksa (DSP expert and author of HQPlayer) has measured the RF output of some DACs. As the linked post shows, it is not always pretty. Surprisingly, some DACs produce less RF interference when fed DSD.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Hi Mr. Krieger and thanks for the kind reply
" It's not that simple.... The frequencies immediately above the audible band aren't the problem..... But the digital switching sends noise all the way to RF, which has been extremely difficult to filter out. (If you place an AM radio near a typical DAC, you'll hear RF interference on the radio.)
The problem is the close proximity of analog electronics picks up this RF hash, and modulates the audio signal with it.
The best way to filter out the RFI is to isolate the active digital circuitry from the remainder of the system. Including use of optic lines wherever possible, isolation at the mains, and tube electronics.
(And powering down any active digital audio devices when playing the FM tuner, vinyl, or analog tape.) "
Thanks a lot indeed for the very valuable advice. No FM tuner here.
I am revolutionazing my set-up and i will use a usb to spdif converter that has also toslink and i want to try it.
I understand now that it could be beneficial to isolate from RFI ?
Good !
Also the first test of the dac was performed with a very cheap off the shelf usb to toslink converter.
" There hasn't been a method to knock the RFI down completely, save for playing analog media (cassettes, LPs, etc.) of digitized music- The RFI only occurred at the studio. Since the first "digital" recordings were digitally mastered LPs, the initial reaction to digital audio (Telarc/Soundstream) was ravingly positive.
Nobody realized the ills of digitized audio until the digital processing was taking place in the end users' systems "
This is also very interesting indeed.
Still there is the endorsement of this dac by a famous Sony sound engineer who is behind many production on Sacd.
Nevertheless Sacd is not universally appreciated with people mentioning a lack of drive, of dynamics ?
Only time will tell. Anyway i see a growing availability of dsd converters on the market.
What i am looking for in digital is that sense of ease that analog almost always has.
I happened to like more a copy on tape of a cd than the cd itself !
Maybe i am just getting crazy.
To end i wonder how much of the PsAudio dac performance is due to the use of analog filters ... i guess a lot indeed.
Maybe even if the upsampling process from cd to dsd introduces some noise the possibility to adopt analog filtering is decisive for sound quality.
Thanks a lot again.
Kind regards,
bg
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