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In Reply to: RE: "the PS Audio DirectStream DAC acts also as pcm to dsd upsampler" posted by Chris from Lafayette on February 14, 2015 at 17:34:47
Hi and thanks for the valuable reply.
But if you can filter this noise ... everything has some noise in the beginning .. even mains have noise.
But we filter that noise.
If you say that this dac has noise at the output ... i do not know honestly.
What i know is that there is already an extremely positive review around.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 02/14/15Follow Ups:
Manufacturers money for their products to be reviewed?
I wouldn't believe anything 6 Moons has to say about anything after the editor announced he was going to start charging manufacturers for reviews.
Meat; It's the right thing to do. Romans 14:2
Do you have a link to this information? Wow, I thought this industry was shady beneath the covers but here they're not even getting a hotel room! I don't quite know what that means, it's late and it popped off the top of my head. I guess it's just a nasty conflict of interest and complete loss of credibility if true.
Edits: 02/21/15 02/21/15
Abe;
I am absolutely serious.
I am away from home at this time, but go to the "critics" asylum and go back a four or five months and there is a big thread where Srajean (editor of 6 Moons) attempts to justify charging money for his reviews. It's completely FFF-ING laughable!
I always suspected he was a Shill - At least now I knew.
I tried to locate the thread on my android phone and couldn't find it.
It's either been deleted, or I can't go back far enough.
Meat; It's the right thing to do. Romans 14:2
Amazing! I do not disbelieve you. I just wanted to read the details. I'll go search for it in Critics. Hopefully its still there. Thanks for the reply.
Abe;
I found this.
Meat; It's the right thing to do. Romans 14:2
Abe;
I believe the thread was 5 or 6 months ago but cannot be sure. I checked my post history (last 500) and could not find anything. It was a very hotly debated topic with at least 90 responses.
I was incredulous when I read Srajean written response attempting to justify his "pay for review" stance. I used to read his, as well as other writers on the 6 Moons staff from time to time but no more.
If I remember correctly, I told him to follow George Thorogood's advice - Get a haircut and get a real job!
Meat; It's the right thing to do. Romans 14:2
Hi and thanks i did not know this.
So it is like a paid lab testing.
Anyway they could be true about the high quality of the unit.
Better to wait and see the reaction of the market then.
Thanks for the info.
Kind regards,
bg
I would not call it that. I've not seen any measurements there.
Regards,
Geoff
Sounds more like the old Payola scheme, where record companies used to pay D.J.s to play (promote) their records. That was considered a huge scandal back then.Actually, what I think this may signal, assuming it is true, is a tacit declaration that audio product reviews are not so much about honest consumer guidance as they are entertainment, and serve the vendor's interest, not the reader's. I think this has been true among the audio print media for some time.
_
Ken Newton
Edits: 02/17/15
Here's the ultrasonic noise:Note the dip and rise of ultrasonic quantization noise above 22KHz
DSD64
PCM 24/192
Pictures asside, I'm not convinced that DSD is superior on the playback side of things. In fact, I have found that I often prefer PCM 24/96.
Edits: 02/16/15 02/16/15
Having complained about my Music Scope plot being low resolution, yours is even worse. Plus there is no bit monitor either.
Stop making pointless noise
Are you going to beat this to death even more than you already have Fred?My screenshots as displayed here on AA are clearly sharper than yours by anyone's vision except yours so I'm not sure what you are whining about.
Better get your Bit Monitor checked too as yours does not appear to be displaying any useful information.
Edits: 02/16/15 02/16/15
Some people are clueless as do not realize that their uploaded images are resized by the AA software. These are the same people who don't know how to use a browser "save as" to download files, and the same people who never provide active links to web pages in their posts, demonstrating a combination of ignorance and selfishness. These people certainly don't have any web hosting expertise that would allow them to host high resolution graphics. Either their computer monitors are defective or their eyesight needs correction because they have trouble reading windows of audio applications that are perfectly legible on my display, assuming only that I am wearing my reading glasses.
How these people can manage to tweak operating systems and reach logical conclusions as to causality is way beyond me.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
I'm going to have to get this Xivero software. Isn't it curious just how much noise there is with DSD?
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Its filtered out in the DAC.... I hope! But personally, I'm not convinced that DSD downloads sound any better to me, compared to high quality PCM.
Edits: 02/15/15 02/15/15
Happy to hear new tech that's better. Until then, I'll keep collecting CDs, I think.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Hi !
thanks a lot for the helpful reply.
the interesting point of this new approach is that promises much better sound even from the normal cds (!). Owning only cds i am intrigued.
English is not my language but they say that " there is so much more information inside a normal cd than what we normally hear playing back the cd with a normal pcm dac ".
As usual this kind of performance never come cheap.
Anyway it looks like a great technical achievement.
DSD promises a better soundstage that for me is very fascinating.
Then if also the PRAT is fine i am done.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 02/15/15
...vs this whole hi-res PCM or DSD vs redbook playback argument. A good recording and master can produce an excellent sounding CD.
Hi and yes but ...
every time i listen to analog, even so so one, i feel a sense of ease that with digital i get when there is a tube in the chain.
I do not like tubes in general, they are not accurate.
But i agree that they give "something" to digital.
From what i understand with SACD there is more of that ease, even without tubes. The music flows better ... very good detail ... very good ambience ... like with analog.
Now if i have understood well the video, this dac promises to give to pcm the same sense of ease.
Nevertheless i also read that some SACD sound "digital".
I strongly believe that this is for the dsp action of digital filters.
But SACD gives the opportunity to use analog filters, and that "analog" is the key i guess.
But in the next future more reviews will come and we will see if the approach is winning or not.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 02/16/15
For whatever reason, I found SACD to sound polite and sometimes almost artificially smooth. For file playback I prefer 24/96 PCM over DSD. For electronics, I seem to gravitate back to tubes even though I've had many solid-state and tube systems.
What is 'accurate'? If we go strictly by specs and measurements alone you'll find many awful sounding but 'accurate' systems. ;-)
Hi and thanks a lot for the always valuable advice.
If i understand well you get with the use of tubes that sense of "ease" that analog sources provide.
Maybe tubes are doing something to the digital sound. Some kind of filtering effect on some digital artifacts.
If video can be used as a reference, digital artifacts can be extremely shocking (i think to pixelation to name one).
Another story ...
i was fighting to get just an acceptable sound with a Rotel 970bx cd player from my cheap but decent rig.
No way ... the sound was hard, harsh and flat. Quite common with digital in my experience.
Then a friend of mine brought his Thorens to my flat.
I can only tell you the big problem was not the system ... was the source.
Immediately i heard music instead of sounds ...
And the system was completely solid state but with LPs it had even depth !!! unbelievable.
From that moment my love and hate relation with digital started.
One thing is evident to me. Digital is not completely understood.
But we have all the time in the world.
Have a nice day.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 02/17/15
1. pcm has brick wall filter at 1/2 sampling frequency unless it is replayed without one, in which case supersonic noise is fed back into the chain.
2. pcm has poorer impulse response (transient) due to brick wall filter.
3. dsd pushes noise out beyond the audible region of frequencies but may upset systems with poor ultrasonic noise tolerence. Only an analogue and more gentle filter is needed following the dac. It has much better transient response.
There is no absolute superiority in either system.
My own leaning is towards 352k 24 bit pcm and dsd 128/256 for better sound quality.
Hi and thanks a lot for the very valuable explanation.You say " dsd pushes noise out beyond the audible region of frequencies but may upset systems with poor ultrasonic noise tolerence. Only an analogue and more gentle filter is needed following the dac.
It has much better transient response."I think it is possible to have analog filter with very sharp slopes.
I mean filtering this ultrasonic noise should not be that difficult.
I have a cheap dac (Cambridge Audio) with different digital filters.
Any filter action is clearly audible ... no one is very nice.
I understand i am trivializing a lot the issue, but i think that the problem are digital filters. They ruin the sound.
Anyway it is just a matter of time. If the concept is sane we will see many converters based on the same approach very very soon.
PCM to DSD upsampling with analog filtering.
Maybe i am just an ignorant dreamer ...
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 02/16/15
Hi and thanks for the very interesting graph and beautiful also.
But i am not sure to understand them rightly.
I have been very impressed by the words used in the videos ... like that in a cd there is much more than what we hear.
The new PsAudio dac could be revolutionary. With the playback of the copy identical to the playback of the master.
The future will tell of course.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 02/15/15
Never in a month of Sundays. This is exactly what publishers don't want!
They'll happily give you poorer versions all day long. Just think about the business case, for a moment, and you'll easily understand why. Reissue, anyone?
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Hi and thanks for your helpful reply.
obviously i was not present to the demo.
I have to rely on what the speakers state in the videos.
But his credibility is beyond any doubt.
If he says that the sound is amazing i tend to believe it.
Other listenings will follow i think.
The future will tell as always.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
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