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In Reply to: RE: Vintage DAC vs PS Nuwave posted by excelit on January 28, 2015 at 13:46:51
The California Audio Lab Alpha I have is the original, not the 24/96 version that came out later. There are some that prefer the original, others don't.
It listed at $1,495.00 when it first came out in the 90's. The Alpha had some great reviews at that time, but I would not call it SOTA. It's definitely not entry level though.
This Nuwave I have I bought used. It is listed at $1000 but I believe you can trade in your old dac for a $300 credit, so basically it's $700. I would say the Nuwave can be considered entry level above the Schiit Bifrost price wise.
So what we have is a mid level dac from 2 decades ago v.s. a present day entry level dac.
Of course the comparison is limited to redbook cd playback, its relevance is for you to decide. I have to say though that the Nuwave has a usb input, which opens up its utility of which I have yet to explore.
So, I have been burning in the nw non stop for almost 4 days now, and this is my INITIAL impression per cd:(Please note that when I say one is more than the other, it does not mean the other is NOT. I'm speaking in relative terms between the two.)
Gary Burton Quarted Live "Falling Grace"
Gary opens up with a vibraphone solo and the nuwave immediately shows its resolving superiority over the Alpha in the high frequencies. The nw seems to reach higher up the frequency extremes but the Alpha answers back with a more organic and rounded rendering of the vibraphone. The vibes has that almost bell like ring and the decay seems longer.
Shortly after Gary's brief solo comes an electric bass solo. Here, the nw scores a knock down of the Alpha. The bass solo on the Alpha sounded distant and almost muffeled. On the nw, it still sounded distant but the bass is more defined and I can follow the bass lines easily.
Original motion picture soundtrack to the movie Glory- "Preparation for Battle"
This is one of my favorite soundtrack because of how the music connects and lifts the emotional engagement for that specif part of the movie.
The nw presents a slightly more wider and deeper soundstage. At around 2:47 of the cut, a trumpet sadly beckons from the distant right corner of the soundstage, the nw portrays a slightly deeper/distant trumpet but more amazingly is how the trumpet echoes or reverberates from that corner into the rest of the soundstage. I did not hear that trumpet reverb creep into the soundstage from the Alpha.
At the climax, there are bells rung in the background, the nw does a better job of delienating the bells from the rest and avoids getting lost in the grand finale.
The Alpha answers back with a more lush presentation of the orchestra.The strings are so sweet and moving, putting into contrast the nw almost steely portrayal of the strings.
The alpha also gave a more convincnig spatial cues of the chorals performance. With the alpha I can tell that the choral must have performed in a church or such,but not so much with the nw.
Finally, the alpha was just more dynamic,it portrayed more power and majesty of the orchestra, thereby making it a more moving dac for this particular musical piece.
Coming up in the next installment:
Pat Metheny
Frank Zappa
Patriot Games soundtrack
Joe Jackson
James Newton Howard
Follow Ups:
Steely Dan Gaucho- Title song
The opening riff of this song is sort of a stop-go-stop-go-stop-go beat of I can only guess, electric piano, bass and drums, but who know what does guys concoct to come up with their sound. Here the dynamic swing between beats are more,well..dynamic with the alphas. I can only imagine how much more it would be if I had solid state amps. The nw had dynamics but not as effective as the alphas for this song.
The nw countered in the end with the last few second of the song's triangular bells, I would guess they are. The nw frequency response seems almost to go up to forever compared to the alphas.
Patriot Games soundtrack "The Hit"
The first note out of this track is simply explosive. Here again the alphas was more effective in attack and in bass volume. The nw has a more resolving bass, tight and defined. The alphas has a fuller bass, but it does not mean it is not controlled, just fuller and more than the nw in this track.
James Newton Howard and Friends "L'Daddy"
Here the nw resolution and soundstage superiority over the alphas show again as the opening drumstick hit each other as a countdown. There is more space around the sticks, but the Alphas counter with a more wooden sounding stick, thicker and more the sound of real wooden sticks hitting each other.
Then CRRRAAAACCCCCKKKKK, I think they made this record for that one fierce and angry hit at the drums. Again the alphas showed more savagery in conveying this transient attack.
Frank Zappa Waka/Jawaka title song
I knew Frank was a genius, but it took the Nuwave (I spelled it out this time, out of respect for it, this time for this revelation) to reveal to me how so much more he is.
There's a lot of instruments going on in this song, each on its own seemingly going its own way but taken as a whole, art at its best.
Each instrument was more prominent, I mean,they are also there with the Alphas but the nw made me appreciate the arrangement of Mr. Zappa.
The second guitar accompanying Frank's solo guitar, the horn blazing away, the electric piano and moog, the piccolo, drums, all going their own way ,but playing real tight, presented by the nw individually and as a whole. It's the genius conducting his orchestra.
This time the alphas had no response, I did not need to hear truth of timbre, organic, natural, analog or whatever, the nw gave me the whole picture, it presented the forest AND the trees. It's like appreciating the Mona Lisa as a whole at the same time aware of her smile.
This experience is similar to another of Frank's work: Inca roads, but I'll leave that for another time
Next installment
Pat Metheny
Joe Jackson
Joni Mitchell
Joe Jackson The very best of- "Steppin' Out
This is my go to song for PRAT. In this song, there is this catchy base line which carries the song from start to finish.
The alpha bass is so full and bouncy as against the nw tight and controlled bass. I think an analogy of this would be the Linn turntable of yester years (Valhalla)and the VPI turntables at that time. The linn had an upper bass hump while the VPI's were more neutral. Linny's love how engaging their turn tables were, as they were indeed more involving for me at least, while the vpi guys vounted their table's neutrality. It's not an exact analogy but there you go...
Joni Mitchell Wild Things Run Fast "Love"
This is one of my favorites from one of my favorite artist.
Joni starts powerful from the start of this song. Her voice almost straining, almost like begging to heed her message.
The nw portrayed her, at this point of her career, more matured voice, quite well. I can hear her voice from her throat, but with the alphas I can also sense her chest. There's just more body with the alphas, yes more natural and human.
Pat Metheny 80/81 "Goin' Ahead"
This one of my favorite guitar solos. If this music does not move you, then your heart is made of stone.
The nw again portrayed the guitar really cleanly, with all the details of the finger squeaking, and Pat's breathing. So does the Alphas.
In the middle of the piece, there is one pluck which for me measures a units dynamics, here the alpha predictably beats the nw.
There is also more lower midrange energy from the aplhas which the nw lacks. Consequently, the nw renders the guitar almost thinly. I can hear the strings from the nw but the alphas makes me sense the guitar's wooden body as well.
This music never fails to move me, but when I was listening with the nw, I found my mind wandering...
The Nuwave has superior resolution, soundstage, high frequency extension and a more defined bass.
The Alphas to me sounded more dynamic,had better PRAT and a more realistic, rounded and more fleshy rendering of music. It sounded more real to me.
I preferred each dac based on what song I played.
I prefer the Cal Audio Lab Alpha overall though, because it connects me more to the music, it sounds more real and involving overall. It will keep its place as my redbook cd source.
I got this second dac not as a replacement but as an addition.
Ironically, I will probably be listening more to the PS Audio Nuwave, because the runner up becomes my dac for my Arcam Rblink bluetooth device.
I will enjoy the convenience of scrolling through my iphone's playlist and pick out my song instantly with a flick of my finger. I don't have to walk to my Rotel transport and change CD, and I don't have to tilt my head looking for CD I stored vertically.
Most of all I will have the under expectation of hi fidelity because it is just bluetooth. That acceptance frees me from critical listening and I get to "enjoy the music"
I'm listening to Rod Stewart's Mandolin via the Nuwave - rblink, as I type this, and it sounds great, better than expected from blue tooth.
I'm done.
Wait, what is that 192khz button on that Nuwave for?
And if you venture further into the land of R2R dacs you will find that there are some that are much higher resolving than the middling Alpha DAC and still give you those, dynamics, pace and musicality.
but which ones, specifically?
Some good choices with UltraAnalog DAC modules
Kinergetics KCD-55 ultra
Sonic Frontiers DACs 2, 2 mKII and 3
Mark Levinson No. 35 and 30 and 30.5
Threshold DAC-2
VTL reference DAC
STAX DAC X1-T
Manley Reference DAC and Manley Wavedac (first generation)
Resolution Audio Quantum DAC
Audio Research Ref1-20
Counterpoint DA-11 with UA module
Good DACs with BB PCM63 or PCM1704
Theta DS Pro Gen V
Monarchy Audio M22, M24, M33, NM24
Camelot Uther
Several Chinese players, particularly Lite DAC
Moon Eclipse
Older Accuphase DACs that used multi, multi bit (kind of like Metrum now) DACs (often the PCM1702 though, which is not considered to be quite as good)
Counterpoint DA-11 with BB module
Resolution Audio Opus 21 and new Cantata
Assemblage DAC 3.0
Less Loss DAC (PCM1704 I think)
There are many others but that is a good start
I so far prefer the sound with the UA dac modules to those I have heard using the BB PCM DACs.
What I haven't heard at length though are DACs based on the Analog Devices AD1865N (18 bit and preferred by Audio Note UK) and the AD1862 (20 bit but not used by too many people for some reason).
These might also be very promising.
Do Ultra Analog and Burr Brown chips have a general "house" sound charachter? How would you compare them?
Don't have enough extended, hands on experience to say this for sure but the UltraAnalog sounds more alive and resolved but at the same time with lots of great tone and body.
Hi i see that many acclaimed dacs are not multibit
The Bricasti M1 for instance uses one AD1955 per channel i think
Maybe there is much more than only the dac chip ?
Kind regards,
bg
Well the AD1955 is not a R2R ladder DAC and I am not sure that I have heard it in anything so I honestly cannot comment on the Bricasti DAC. I do know the main reason to go to the other chips is cost...R2Rs are expensive relative to the delta/sigma or hybrid types.
Look at what MSB technologies is charging for their own made R2R dac modules...big bucks!!
Also, the French TotalDac wants serious money for their DAC also with self-made modules.
Hi and thanks again for the kind and helpful advice
I have never listened to the Bricasti dac but reviews are very positive indeed.
I understand that some dac chips are quite expensive but my point is that when the aim is to build a top dac it would be at least surprising that they skimp on the dac chip quality.
I read one comment about a listening test of 3 dacs with same dac chip (quite cheap by itself) and very different level of cost and build of course.
The most expensive was completely in another league soundwise compared to the cheaper ones.
So it really seems that excellent performance can be obtained even from today dac chips when well used.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 02/16/15 02/16/15 02/17/15
check out the PCM1704 or 1702. Earlier examples were the PCM63. None of these are that easy to find in new production DACs, but I think Tentlabs still has stock of the PCM63 for its designs, and I bought a fantastic 1704K DAC last year (listed in my system).
Ultra Analog 20400 DACs are supposed to be amazing.
The Philips 1541A is great - if care is taken to maximise its potential (see the AMR CD77 or the Zanden series). The has been used in many a NOS design.
New, proprietary chips can be had from Metrum or MSB, but those are $$$. Schiit Audio is rumoured to be releasing a new R2R DAC (Yggdrasil) but that is still mythical at present.
That's a decent start.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
and I liked the CAL Alpha as much as you seem to, I'd have it 'spruced up' - your current comparisons notwithstanding. Looks like the output stage could be improved by fitting sockets, facilitating op-amp rolling. Clearly you can roll the tubes. Also, might be worth getting HQ caps to replace the ones in there. All of this would probably lead to much greater resolution, but keeping the dynamism you've noted, and the sense of a performance (one of the things I listen out for).
That said, I look forward to reading about your further comparisons.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
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