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In Reply to: RE: I have stuck with vintage for redbook posted by ahendler on February 02, 2015 at 14:30:57
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Follow Ups:
Hi they offer in the link a board from PCM63 > PCM1704K as a DAC Upgrade
I wonder if it is really an upgrade
But speaks for the quality of the PCM1704K, i guess
Kind regards,
bg
I have heard both versions of the Monarchy Audio M24 DAC, the first version (mine) with PCM63K chips and the NM24 with PCM1704K chips. I preferred the sound of the older one...so did a friend of mine who then went out of his way to find an older one.
Now, the 1704K version is very good but something relating to the "analogness" of the older chips kept me from getting mine upgraded.
Hi and thanks a lot for the helpful reply.
If the older cheap sounds more analog the newer one is hardly an upgrade.
Why they have stopped producing the old is a mistery.
At least for the cost no object units, for which the best parts available should be a must.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
And then decide for yourself.Stereophile on the release of the 1704.
Lessloss with a (whiff of a) passing comment on the 1704/63.
Monarchy on the 2 DACs.
Lynn Olson making some more in-depth comparisons with delta/sigma dacs.
I find the 1704 to sound tremendously resolute and portray fantastic scale, offering scary-good bass performance. If I had the 63 instead, I'd still be happy to use it, but the implementation of either will be key.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Edits: 02/05/15 02/05/15 02/05/15 02/05/15
Interestingly, the PCM63 has a more robust current output than the 1704, which makes it more friendly for passive I/V conversion (the Monarchy uses just a resistor). I once inquired about the 1704 upgrade and was told by CC that the 1704 wouldn't work in that design...a couple of years later he came out with the 1704 in the Monarchy!
I am probably one of the few who has had both side by side in very resolution systems (Apogee Grand, Acoustat etc.). Both are great but I find the 63 version to be just about as resolute but with a bit less edge to the sound.
I might well look for a good design using the 63. I think folk like Tent Labs still have stock of the K edition. Aside from the Monarchy, what's your favourite 63 DAC?
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
The BAT VKD5 was pretty good but perhaps a bit dark sounding. Later they switched to the 1704 and it was also good.
THe EAD DSP 7000 was also quite good sounding.
Krell's KPS20i was quite a machine but it still sounded a bit solid state.
But probably the best one I heard was the Theta DS Pro Gen V. That is a machine I definitely wouldn't mind having today.
That said, the whole Monarchy lineup, M22A,B,C, M24 and M33 all used the PCM63 and all sound great.
I am keeping an eye out for the Schiit Yggdrasil, for precisely that reason (Theta DS Pro Gen V designer). If it ever arrives...
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Hi and thanks again for the helpful advice
You are right because i see very high end units (especially pro) that use common dac chips like the Prism Sound Orpheus using a cheap CS4398
So maybe i should focus more on a complete dac
Even a very top dac chip is not guarantee of good sound per se
Thanks again
Kind regards,
bg
Well, I am sure that the designer either thinks it is an upgrade or just didn't have PCM63s available anymore.
Hi and yes of course
I am pretty sure they are both fantastic dac chips anyway
interesting list even if i am afraid difficult to find
If i had a top dac i would keep it very close to me ... a precious piece of the chain indeed.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 02/05/15
Get them while you can.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Hi and thanks for the advice
But my dream is to get a Wadia dac one day ... i like what i read.
Great soundstage, solid and powerful sound ... than i can make-up the sound a little with the cable choice (i love Cardas)
This would be my final dac ... even the small 121.
Kind regards,
bg
Wadia's 15 is a well regarded PCM63 DAC. They sometimes come up for sale (though not often, admittedly). I'm enjoying the Lite Audio DAC83 at the moment, using 4 1704K chips in differential mode.
Might pay to examine the MSB R2R module which can be had in other designs, or wait for the appearance of Metrum's Transient DAC module. That said, neither are or are likely to be inexpensively implemented.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Hi and thanks a lot for the valuable suggestions.
It is wonderful indeed ... i see prices of about 3-4000 USD
I like it a lot indeed.
Also the Lite Audio at half the price is really greatly built.
Nice dac you have.
" That said, neither are or are likely to be inexpensively implemented "
this i do not understand completely ...
anyway in the meantime i got an information that very good sound is not elusive of specific dac chips but more of well done designs and constructions
For instance the Prism Audio Orpheus, very popular in the pro sector as a masterpiece, uses a cheap chip ... the CS4398 as dac.
And the sound is said to be phenomenal.
Also that one is not cheap ... only the chip is cheap.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
I saw a Wadia 15 go for about GBP 1,000 recently on Hifi Wigwam. So it is possible to get one cheaper. Nice unit.
The Lite Audio system was a bit of an underground hit. I use I2S to the LT-1 transport, itself a nice unit with particular attention paid to the signal transmission (a bit like Audio Note does, possible). Separate power and so on.
These chips require specific filter and implementation requirements to be paid to them, more so than the do-it-all cheap chips you find today. As a result, unless you are a competent digital designer, you may not get the mbest out of them. For high-end (and enthusiast) digital companies of the past and present, this wasn't a problem, but that pushed costs up. The sound as a result, however, is frankly amazing.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
You owe it to yourself to seek out a dac with the UltraAnalog 20 bit R2R dac modules...they really are something special and based on what I have heard, have it over both the PCM63 and 1704.
My Kinergetics has two stereo modules in differential mode and once it warms up it has a dimensionality...even with SS output that was stunning. The whole package is just better.
given that some of the best R2Rs today plough the same path as the UltraAnalog, I may well do so. It's unlikely I'll be able to afford the Metrum or the MSB chips in a DAC anytime soon. Thanks for the recommendation - I guess I was casually searching for one, in a way. :)
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
NT
try it! you know you want to!
I noticed that at the end of last year. Have you built it?I2S input = good. Op-amps to achieve balanced output = not so great, usually. But perhaps the SE output is okay?
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Edits: 02/09/15 02/09/15
Just received 4 here but haven't put it all together yet. Waiting for the designer to release info on synching them together for 8 channel active system....
try it! you know you want to!
I stumbled across mine at a ridiculously low price so I could not say now :). The dealer apparently knew very little about what was inside and since Kinergetics is not really a household name...especially now that they are defunct it was cheap. Very very good sounding.
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