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50.187.5.22
For instance, Sony made some statement players like the SCD-1 or SCD 777es. I know their lasers are old , but if they work would they sound better than modern cd players on redbook cds? Or are there nice modern ones that are sonicallly superior to those older statement pieces? Thanks Norm
Follow Ups:
I use an external DAC and found that a Sony S7000 DVD player as CD-transport sounds better than my Oppo BDP-83.
I use the Oppo only for movies now.
Both the Sony S7000 & S7700 are highly regarded as transports.
From what I have read the sequentially released dvd players Sony DVP-S7000, DVP-S7700, and DVP-S9000ES are all excellent transports. Apparently next model after that (DVP-NS999ES), and all following models were not anything special as transports. I am curious as to why they are different. I have two S7000's, and may have to open one up to see what is special.
IMHO I think the guys who say that high $$$ transports do not sound any different than using a cheap CD player as a transport are incorrect. The claim of placebo affect because you paid more ... so it HAS to sound better is what is usually said. This was definitely not my experience. I was totally sceptical that transports could sound different. Out of curiosity I bought a Sony S7000 for only $15 at Goodwill. Since I had so little money into it, I really could have cared less if it sounded better... but it definitely did! It is better as a transport than any of my current players (I have six) other than perhaps my Marantz DV9500. Just thinking out-loud... BTW, I saw another one at Goodwill for $7 the other day, though it was tempting, I don't need three of them!
Looking for an update -Norm.
My update is, yes, the player that I, in particular, referred to was a SONY XA-7ES. I think the ergonomics are unrivaled to this day! Well, you have to put that puck on top of the CD, but that's it.
Please, no one go out and buy an S.M.S.L. device from my recommendation! Yes, you COULD build your own power supply and make it perform much better, but at that point, I would RECOMMEND shooting much higher, considering the effort involved.
I am READY for my next project: I am looking for a small computing device with an audio S/PDIF out, or even USB WILL DO, that I can make look like a CD player. As long as I never have to look at a boot screen or software configuration screen, I would be happy.
I am a friend of Ian Grant late of Grant Fidelity. Some time back Ian's partner Rachel asked me to help her with the Toronto AV CES show. So I brought along my cables my vibration damping devices my ac filters and my modified entry level Sony DVD player, we were nominated three times best sound at show and had several other mentions. Amplifiers were 845 Psvane mono blocks and speakers were Pure Audio Project. So I think that we did pretty well considering how many were running hirez at the show, that ought to be a 5 - 6 times data advantage over a CD. Nothing wrong with CD's. I just modified a new(er) Toshiba entry level DVD player 24 bit 196KHz sample rate it is much better than the Sony I took to the show but Sony have a 24 bit 196 DVD player also I would like to hear it but it does not display track on the box only on screen. I think CD sounds fine. Best regards Moray James.
http://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/taves2014/3.html
moray james
Thanks! for sharing Moray.
You are most welcome. Of course what we did at T.A.V.E.S. does not prove anything past the fact that we proved that with some effort CD's can still entertain at a very high level. What magazine reviewers have to say is their own opinion. I will say that we had a very busy room and that a lot of visitors came back multiple times over the weekend. By Friday noon of the show we started having comments of best sound or one of the best sounding rooms at show and that persisted for the weekend. On Sunday we had a lot of exhibitors come in for a listen and that is always a very good sign. So I think that we were able to generate a lot of buzz.
I invested about four hours of modification time into the Sony DVD player that we used plus the cost of my parts. The Sony DVD player was an entry level DVD which was a factory rebuild that I bought new with warranty for all of $22.50. I think that is pretty good value. I compared a number of 24 bit 96KHz players against 24 bit 196 KHz players and the extra sampling rate helps just as would be expected with very controlled and articulate bass. The New Toshiba I got is actually a five year old design (all DVD players are old designs) which was released with new higher sampling rate dac's this year. None of the majors is spending much on DVD as they would all like to drop them and just make Bluray. Interestingly I have not yet found an inexpensive Bluray that I like as much as the DVD players when playing CD's. Trust your ears.
The other day I picked up a blue and a green Sharpie I colored in the clear centre section of some CD disks, blue on the label side green on the playing side then on the top label side I made a diffraction grate by drawing radial lines alternating blue and then green all the way around the disk, this has a very nice affect upon the sound of a CD. So now I am looking to find a Cyan LED (480 nm) to use to flood the underside of the disk. I used to do this mod with a green LED but now LED's which are close to 480 nm (light blue)are available so I will find some and install one on my player. Best regards Moray James.
moray james
> > For instance, Sony made some statement players like the SCD-1 or SCD 777es. I know their lasers are old , but if they work would they sound better than modern cd players on redbook cds? < <
Even back in the day, although decent, neither the SCD1 or 777 represented state of the art CD playback (SACD wasn't much better, contrary to the over-the-top marketing hype). If dedicated CD performance is your motive, I can think of a number of players back then, and today, which would easily prove superior (and certainly more reliable), many for far less $,$$$.
From what I've heard from OPPO's, IMO, they're better suited within a good HT system, designed for optimum DVD/BR sound reproduction (in which they thrive). As a CD player, OPPO offer "decent" performance, to my ears, they sound opaque/veiled when directly compared to better CDPs.
tb1
It is SO MUCH better than my previous top end SONY player.
I had a Sony XA7ES that was very good but not quite up there with a couple others I owned.
Which Sony ES model(s) did you like better?
Is there a point to your post, or is it a secret???
Point is that newer DACs are less expensive and better sounding than DACs of yore, particularly DACs of traditional design (SONY's are the only ones I really have experience in, though). However, a $100 DAC will ALWAYS have shortcomings of components that CAN be remedied. I'm sure a $600 DAC today will beat any pre 2000 mass market high-end DAC.
I have an S.M.S.L. and I'm on my second power supply design. Still, mostly off-the-shelf circuits and components. I'll post when it's done.
Hi i am still interested in your project as i have ordered one myself as well
I read that the usb port is so so but i am not going to use it.
Have you built the power supply ?
does the dac respond well to a PS change ?
Thanks a lot.
Kind regards,
bg
Hi just out of curiosity
Is the dac the one in the link ? and you say it sounds good ?
What digital source are you using ?
Thanks a lot.
Kind regards,
bg
Thanks for the link: I've been looking for a good image of the circuit board. It appears to be the exact same unit, but sometimes they say it is upgraded.Anyway, you will get a tiny switching supply with it that is ABSOLUTELY crap. So, all you have to do is figure out is how to supply it with a good 9 V, not even much current??, maybe 500mA?
Then, you can order a power supply board, even an adjustable one will work and a transformer and figure out how to make the wiring safe at that point!!
Oh, yes, I am using one of those touted CD players of yesteryear because they were made so nice. However, as a transport, I hear they are usually just so, so. But, we ALL know the transport should NOT really matter, right?
I realize, now, that the OP was commented on NEW players versus OLD players, and I was inserting a DAC into the discussion. For the price, the newer DAC's IMO are an improvement over most old stuff. I am just getting into CD playback after being put off for so many years.
Edits: 12/17/14
Hi i bought one of this in the picture
It provides both 5V usb power and another DC out that i think could be calibrated to get 9V and the needed power cables.
I do not know anything about its quality, but it works.
I do not like at all toroidal transformer to supply digital circuits but they are the norm so they should be fine
I very much prefer EI type transformer that provides usually a better isolation from mains noise.
Please let me know how it goes.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 12/17/14
are you attempting to use an older cd player w/ newer DAC?
OR-
a newer cd player w/ an older DAC?
Hi i have many transport solutions at hand and i am evaluating cheap but nice sounding dacs
My system is not resolving enough to appreciate the finest details
And i have always in mind some tests that show how transports are more impacting than dacs on sound quality
So maybe i should look for a better transport ?
I am a little confused actually
Better to keep on reading
Kind regards,
bg
I've owned the ones mentioned here and many, many more including Levinson, BAT, Wadia, ARC and Krell reference players. I have also had the last 2 Oppos just to see what they sound like and I HATE THOSE PIECES OF CRAP...with a passion:) So, spare me the Oppo bullshit when it comes to serious sound reproduction. The Levinson No.39 and 390s would still outperform just about anything made today. The Krell 505 and the Cipher are current Generation leaders to my ears. Esoteric and dCs are way overpriced and knd of boring sounding to me...dry and sterile. ARC's newest offerings are superb but only for CD....which is probably all that really matters anyway. Oh, I also bought a Sony HAPZ1 to see what all the fuss was about as well....WOWZER...THAT WAS SOME BAD SOUND!!! Unless flat, thin and 2 dimensional is your thing!! So, YES..some of the older stuff would be able to hold up against what's left of a dying breed and some of the newer digital players:(
dave_b
Edits: 12/15/14
i agree...many older top end units will do so many things that some of these newer "miracle" units won't do...like sound like music and still have transparency, soundstaging and detail in spades...
I actually regret spending a lot of the money I have spent over the years on stereo in pursuit of improving my listening experience. My original Wilson WP 6's and ARCVT200 and LS25 wt a Levinson No.39 CD player and Transparent Ultra cables was sweet!!
dave_b
The No 39 is a great player as well. I will say that the No 512 is the best sub $10K spinner (CD & SACD) at this time!
I thought the 512 was $20k??
dave_b
No dave,
I believe when it was released, several years ago, the top retail was $12K.
No one pays full retail and these players are beginning to show up in the used/demo market.
Yup....I got a 505 in mint condition for $3K:)))
dave_b
Nice score! does the 505 play SACD ?
Yes it does!
dave_b
.
At the present,
I like the Mark Levinson No 512 CD/SACD spinner!
Yes....wish I could afford the 512:)
dave_b
I owned an SCD-1 back when it was new. Even then, it did not sound as good playing SACDs as top CD players (albeit much more expensive machines). Differences in the implementation of the analogue stage is at least as important as the difference in digital format. I went with a very good CD player instead because they sounded MUCH better playing CDs and not enough material was being issued in DSD/SACD to keep me interested in the format. To me, the difference between the various formats playing in stereo is not nearly as significant as a whole lot of other basic system differences, such as solid state vs. tube, high-powered tetrode/pentode tube vs. low powered directly heated triode, and almost any other such considerations.
A friend's highly modified SCD-1 with a tube output stage sounds good, but, I haven't heard it directly compared to a really good CD player.
Having also had, at one time, an SCD-1. A paucity of software titles eventually put me off. My present Lite Audio arrangement is substantially more musical to my ears, and gives me much more enjoyment than I ever remember getting from that SACD player.
Big J
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
I didn't have one of the Sony players you cite but I did have their "successor" Model XA777ES and always thought it pretty much sucked playing CDs. In fact it was absolutely no match, IMHO, for a Raysonic 128, which sounded better on the CD layer of hybrid SACDs than the XA777ES did on the SACD layer.
Like john E, I now have an Oppo 105, which sounded in stock form as good as (but no better than) the Raysonic on CDs and, of course also played SACDs beautifully. So I treated it to the $2500 ModWright mods (tubed outputs and tubed power supply, among other things) and finally could sell the Raysonic in good conscience.
I've been listening to a what, 20 year old Sony Car Ready Discman with vintage earphones as an experiment the last couple of days The sound of this thing is at least as good as my modded Oppo 103. Honest injun. Battery power, no crossover, no transformers, no capacitors, no cables, no wires, no fuses. No problem.
Edits: 12/15/14
I use an Oppo BDP-105D, which is a new player that will accommodate just about any format of audio and video available today. It plays CDs, SACDs, DVDs, Blu-ray discs and has multiple USB ports to accommodate hard drives containing virtually all formats of digital including 24/192 and DSD. It also connects to the internet for streaming audio and video. I don't know if it sounds better than the Sony models you mention, but it sounds very realistic in my system and it has balanced analog outputs. Based on its versatility and its outstanding sound quality, I would rather own it than an SACD player that can only play CDs and SACDs and is so old that it will probably breakdown soon. YMMV
Good luck,
John Elison
ah yes...the newer is better and longer lasting argument, sounds a lot like a sales pitch
> sounds a lot like a sales pitch
Well, I'm not selling mine! ;-)
But, if you like old CD players, enjoy!
Happy Holidays,
John Elison
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