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In Reply to: RE: perhaps I should have said 'looks impressive' posted by 13th Duke of Wymbourne on July 24, 2014 at 15:06:13
"Looks impressive." I agree.
See figure 1 of the link for impressive pulse performance (DSD64 or DSD128).
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Follow Ups:
So how would you say people can resolve the issue as it relates to perceived sound quality.
I have contemplated a Blind level matched preference based test and maybe I can get some insight. Measurements need to be relevant to the sound and If we take generally acceptable listening subjects who are proven to be "musically inclined" and we take AN's very wrong sounding technology then it should be utterly destroyed in the listening room by very good measuring equipment every and all the time with all people with decent hearing. So it's puzzling that so many very experienced ears like AN digital over other better measuring gear. And over the long term not the short term (Ie; people go FROM superior measured gear SS amps and SS CD players TO AN and their bad measurements). You would think people would sell their AN for KRELL/BRYSTON and not always the other way around right? Strange that this is virtually always the scenario.
I can gather 30 classically trained musicians under the age of 40 from a local university to be the listeners.
I can get two rooms of identical dimensions. I can darken the stereo end of the room such that no one can see the system being played.
In room A a complete Audio Note system - why this is good is because as you know SET measures like CRAP compared to $199 SS receivers from SEARS. So we can put an AN SET in there.
The speakers are roundly viewed as awful by most folks, and then there is the high jitter high distortion CD players. All 30 listeners in a blind session should choose anything at Future shop for $500 over any AN system because you can clearly see the measured response is much better from the latter - and while AN may fool some - it couldn't possibly fool folks with no dog in the hunt and can't see what is being played.
So In room B We run a SS amp and a SS CD player (with ultra low noise, distortion and jitter) that are deemed to measure about as good as it gets.
A two way speaker just because the AN E is a two way speaker. But the 2 way should have excellent measured performance - maybe my KEF LS-50 which after all did win product of the year in the measurements heavy Stereophile and because it is a Class A loudspeaker and AN E is class B - very good ENGINEERS have said that it is a better loudspeaker. Surely you would concur that the KEF LS-50 is a much better sounding speaker than the AN E. Even if you don't love the KEF - you must agree it measures better and therefore because of that it must sound better and classically trained musicians could not possibly be fooled.
Both rooms play a CD with 12-15 cuts of varying music genres to cover a spread of real world use (and to avoid fatigue). Each listener gets a card and they drop the card outside the room they like best. The seat in both rooms is at the same distance and the volume at the listening chair will be the same. No one talks to the listeners and one person at a time listens and makes no contact with others.
In theory as bad as AN measures it should be cumulatively bad right Tony? Because not only are we going to run awful SETs and awful speakers we're going to run awful digital on top of that. And hey most folks think Silver is bright (ie; awful) as well. So it's kind of perfect.
All 30 people should instantly choose Room B over room A?
Would something like this not be a way to sort out what is actually good and the right path versus what is rubbish.
I am viewed as biased so I can't run such an experiment - someone would have to be quite unbiased - someone who doesn't have experience with AN and assume they're BS artists. It would not cost all that much money really - two hotel rooms and 30 university students can be paid off in pizza and a few bucks for their time I'm sure.
Cause forums it's basically your ears versus my ears or his ears versus their ears.
You need listeners with no dog in the hunt but are a section of people who would generally be viewed to have above average "musical hearing" and who are used to the sound of actual instruments - hence classical musicians over rockers. Although certainly another group of rockers and DJ's could also be used just to see if the results are different.
The tests that are out there are somewhat tainted as they were done by corporations who are in the business of selling audio equipment. So not exactly independent.
I think such tests could be done at fairly low cost - but again I will be viewed as too biased based on my preferences so it needs to be done by non biased folks who have the time. I can't see such an experiment costing much more than $3,000 to do. People spend more on interconnect cables and power cords these days. So rich readers - consider it. It would be interesting to see.
Let's not peel the objective vs. subjective onion here - someone is bound to cry. We know Audio Note pride themselves on how their gear sounds over how it measures, that is fine, and I have heard very enjoyable Audio note demos. But, the OP talked about 'new technology' - there ain't no new technology coming out of AN.
Regards
13DoW
These days it's not that difficult to buy "exceptionally good" measurements from a stereo. I am building a very good measuring system and will eventually have an AN system (which measures bad).
I suppose I should have said "new AN player" rather than new technology. What I was interested in was the fact that they feel they found something superior for dramatically less money. And their players IME and IMO sound excellent. It appears there may be "patents" which does indicate some novel additions someplace in the player. We'll have to wait and see. They take forever to bring new products out.
There is a long history of marginal scientific or market research tests involving psycho-acoustic tests, whether for ability to detect differences or choose preferences, etc... In the past there have been lots of discussions on this subject. I am not going to debate this issue here, except to note that any "test" can easily be rigged to make it a "sales demonstration" in disguise and is unlikely to show more than what happened from the point of view of a specific set of people at a particular time and place.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
There are LIES...
There are DAMN LIES...
Then, there are STATISTICS!
Vbr,
Sam
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