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In Reply to: RE: Used to avoid. But implementation is key. posted by jusbe on July 19, 2014 at 17:31:27
I personally think the best CD playback is neither from NOS nor asynchronous upsampling, but from synchronous (4x or 8x) oversampling with "time-resolute" filtering.
Follow Ups:
Hi Todd,
I have an Onkyo Integra DX-530 CD player from 1987 that has 2x oversampling. I was very surprised how good it sounds. I have other CD players from that era that I don't like the sound of. I could not find anything on it on the web, so I think this player is under the radar.
Dave
The player under the rader is the Philips CDC-935 CD changer..... It sounds decent stock, but it is held back by its "consumer grade" output section. Gut the output section, and replace it with something nice (especially a tube output section), you'll discover the DAC section is one of the best ever........ At any price.
This is what I use personally for CD playback.
Hi Todd,
Isn't the 935 a 1-bit player?
Dave
I wonder if the Lite Audio DAC-83 does that? Details on the design are sketchy and even the dealer wasn't 100% sure. It was suggested that the 1704Ks are used in 8x mode, as they seem to demand that in some way but I wish I knew more. It really is a very interesting listen and I was surprised how enjoyable it sounds - and how well it compares with designs that were previously unaffordable to me.
Lite Audio has masked the identity of at least one of the chips in the DAC near it's input.
big j.
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
I deduce the following details from my reading of the review link you provided. It's not possible to tell for certain because, as you said, details are sketchy. I suspect that the desig utilizes an Asynchronous Sample Rate Conversion (ASRC) chip to upsample all input sample rates to an 192K output sample rate. The upsampling ratio would then vary as a function of the input rate. I didn't find mention of an dedicated oversampling digital filter, so, not much more than around an x4 ratio increase.
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Ken Newton
Are you sure the Lite 83 is not using a BB DF1704?? If it is, then it is an 8x OVERsampling digital filter and not an upsampling ASRC.
My Monarchy M24 dac is derived from a Lite DAC and it uses the DF1704 fed into a pair of PCM63K DAC chips.
would make sense, given the shared provenance. Looking at photos of the 1704 filter on the net, there appear to be a similar number of pins on the chip pictured in the Thresholdlovers review (14 per side?) but aside from that, I can't really tell - and I'm not sure that confirms anything significant.
big j.
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Edits: 07/21/14
No, I'm not sure. I'm only surmising, based upon the scant details provided in the linked product review. The review mentions upsampling to 192kHz, which likely means ASRC is employed. The output of an ASRC chip could still be sent to an digital filter chip for an additional x4 rate increase, however, I saw nothing which indicated such an operation is implemented, but it certainly may be.
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Ken Newton
But again, it does not offer that much design analysis . It's no longer near the top of the index mentioned, but for myself, I'm not particularly drawn to the other designs that rank above it, save another using a similar chipset. And another press release , but with only a bare mention of the inner digital pathway.
I've written to Lite Audio and they gave only the briefest of responses to my questions - except those about the design. On that the did not reply at all. Disconcerting, but it sounds bl$$dy good, especially with I2S from the matching transport.
Morricab, got any images of the DF1704K filter chip to compare?
big j.
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
http://www.mother-of-tone.com/pdf/DF1704.pdf
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