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In Reply to: RE: Kenwood DP7090 or Sony CDP XA30 ES ?? posted by KanedaK on June 27, 2014 at 06:35:29
Hi,
Both machines are fairly recent vintage, meaning their laser / drive systems are nothing like those of older machines, be they top-line Kenwood or Sony. So expect unreliability and disk read issues.
The Kenwood uses old Multibit Chipsets (the Burr Brown PCM1702) and 8 pcs at that. It is a massive effort on the digital side, but hampered by sub-ideal analogue design. It may be a good choice to modify with something like LC-Audio's Zapfilter and then can provide balanced outs into the bargain. The stock version I found unimpressive back then, compared to others I had at hand.
The Sony uses a later Sony Delta Sigma Chipset, has the same design issues of the Kenwood of bad analogue stages. I found the drive system intriguing at the time, sonics were pretty blah for the whole range Sony had then.
You need to go further back in my view, or sideways. Either look for CDP's or DAC's with TDA1541, PCM56, PCM63, AD1856, AD1862 or AD1865 or get something more modern.
For example, Lite Audio (aka Monarchy OEM) still offer DAC's on e-bay that use the same Burr Brown Multibit DAC (well, the 24 Bit version) as was used on the Kenwood, with simple tube circuitry after the DAC. These may be a better choice, with any suitable transport.
Ciao T
At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to untolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?
Follow Ups:
Hi Thorsten,
Lite Audio has a NOS DAC on EBay with 8 TDA1543 chips for $138. Is that the one your are talking about? The price certainly is right!
Dave
Hi,
No, cannot recommend that at all.
I was thinking more like DAC-38.
Quite tweakable too...
Ciao T
At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to untolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?
Rats! I was hoping for a dirt cheap solution. I have been sticking with mostly older player, and I have a couple universal players. I can get them for little or no money, and I enjoy working on them.
Dave
Who designs the Lite Audio digital gear? I can find almost no information on the designer or designers and their ethos. Anyone know?
big j.
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Hi,
Originally some Chinese DIY group, IIRC.
If you are worried about ethos, better avoid.
Also, the technology is extremely basic (ca. 1995), but the basics are decent enough and the killer is the price, which is almost strictly material cost.
These DAC's are sonically not competitive (unless heavily modified) with real high end gear (or even quite low end modern day stuff).
But they compare favourably to the kind of the players the OP mentions, especially the versions that are essentially close copies of Audio Note UK's older generation (Oversampling - think 1995) DAC's that are just Receiver -> Digital Filter -> DAC Chips -> Passive I/V conversion -> SRPP Tube stage.
So at the low price and with the hardware included they make a smashing buy, compared to many an older CD-Player.
That smashing buy is probably (like so many cheap consumer goods) at the cost of blood, sweat and tears by some poor chinese labourers, in some big factory that seems to continue turning them out, a decade or two after the nominal sell by date.
Ciao T
At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to untolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?
I own the Lite Audio DAC-83 and LT-1 transport...they replaced a McIntosh MCD-500, and for CD only they easily bettered the Mac. In fact I was about to upgrade to the new (then) MCD1100 when I found the Lite gear.
I just didn't get into SACD but have a very large CD collection and so was looking for a player that would challenge my vinyl front end and keep me interested...the Lite did that in spades.
Listen I could list quite alot of new uber highend players that I have had in my home that the Lite will easily better for CD only...sheesh, shouldn't you hear one before you make such silly comments as these - "These DAC's are sonically not competitive (unless heavily modified) with real high end gear (or even quite low end modern day stuff)."
Hi,
> sheesh, shouldn't you hear one before you make such silly comments
> as these - "These DAC's are sonically not competitive (unless
> heavily modified) with real high end gear (or even quite low end
> modern day stuff)."
I heard more than one. Modified more than one too.
If that makes me silly...
Ciao T
At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to untolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?
on DAC's that according to you can't even compete with today's low end gear???
I've heard the player from your company and I am very aware why you would be afraid of a company like Lite...they are producing gear that competes and/or exceeds the caliber of your "stuff" for pennies on the AMR dollar.
It takes a bit to find, but you should invest a bit in locating Lite's site, not exactly a little DIY group in China.
It's disappointing that a manufacturer would spread such shite...you really should be ashamed.
Hi,
...most of their current product range dates back to the days when I was doing modifications. And yes, that is ruddy long ago.
Nor have I been the only one who found their products great platforms to modify, but rather wanting stock. You may want to do your homework who was supplied by Lite for the bare bone machines which were then modified.
> It takes a bit to find, but you should invest a bit in locating
> Lite's site,
You are talking about this site:
http://www.lite8.com/category.php?action=03000000
????
It takes seconds to find.
> not exactly a little DIY group in China.
Note I wrote about Lite Audio's origins:
"Originally some Chinese DIY group, IIRC."
> I am very aware why you would be afraid of a company like Lite...
If I was afraid of Lite audio, do you REALLY think I would mention their products or recommend them? I'd surely do everything to keep them quiet.
If you like what you hear from their stuff better than what others make, enjoy and have fun. It's a free world. Well, some parts of it anyway.
Ciao T
At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to untolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?
I see the similarity of their DACs, such as the 38, with those you describe. That said, I'm having a lot more fun with their LT-1 transport and DAC 83 than I ever had with my Marantz CD7, especially using the I2S connection. But perhaps the CD7 is not really considered high end any more.
And I'm not at all concerned that it's not the latest and greatest - even if I picked up a Lite Audio USB to SPDIF convertor for 'later use'.
big j.
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Edits: 07/04/14
Jus,Yes, I agree with you. Their stuff may be mostly derivative rather than original and not the latest and greatest, but it is solid value for money.
That said, it also pays to keep an eye on new stuff.
For example, in less than a month there will be a 499 USD DAC/Headphone amplifier shipping, with up to 768KHz PCM (including the option to run non oversampling at sample rates below 352.8KHz - it runs Non-OS above always). DSD-512 and lower is catered for and a SPDIF Input that effectively locks out jitter completely from any source is included (RCA + Optical, 192K max).
And it has a headphone Amp that can drive HiFIman HE-6, likely also AKG K-1000 (could not get one to test) and any less demanding headphones all the way to "silly loud" IEM's with near reference grade sonics. And it includes the option to have a volume control/preamp on the line outs as well.
Finally, it comes "Battery included" (good enough for > 10 Hours play on anything but Turbo Mode for ultra inefficient hard to drive headphones) nd fits a decently sized trouser pocket.
Add a pair of active monitors (I may have something cooking in this corner) and you have grown up stereo that fits a modest suitcase...
That is what I meant by "sell by date".
This 21st century stuff knocks traditional "HiFi" six ways from sunday and then into last week. Not anyone may be ready for the revolution though...
For the times, they are a'changin'.
Ciao T
At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to untolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?
Edits: 07/05/14
how to get excited about computer audio. I'm still dreaming in analogue and buying vinyl - and it's perennially satisfying, even though there's not much innovation with this technology.
Perhaps I'll set up a new bedroom system with C21 tech in mind but my issue has not really been with digital audio or new digital audio, as such. My concern is my (lack of) engagement with an HD, streaming service that meets my audiophile and musical needs, without breaking the bank (or boring the household to death). My residual impression is that a lot of streaming services are like interactive radio stations - with similar levels of fidelity (or discombobulated, über-manipulated sounds). This is, no doubt, breath-takingly inaccurate, but I seem to have more fun with vinyl and 'old digital' and, lately, even with cassettes (Sony Walkman Pro, Tandberg 440A).
I'll ask my son what he thinks.
big j.
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Jus,
Sound quality of PC setup's can easily blast past CD.
Since I have a big Plasma hooked up to my Setup I get coverflow with Covers bigger than real 12" Vinyl Albums.
Interactivity is good with this setup.
For now the rest of the system is more 20th century, to the families occasional frustration...
For a Bedroom system, how does an integrated EL84 PP Amplifier with matching mini-monitor's sound? Of course, Phono Preamp included with low MC capability. For the 21st century twist it includes a DAC with up to 768K PCM / DSD-512 via USB and SPDIF in up to 192K. Coming in September.
Ciao T
At 20 bits, you are on the verge of dynamic range covering fly-farts-at-20-feet to untolerable pain. Really, what more could we need?
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