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In Reply to: RE: Subjective opinions of DACs posted by AudioSoul on April 17, 2014 at 07:09:21
My personal position has long been that audiophiles who only play recordings and have never made them are second class citizens who lack a solid grounding in the technology of reproducing music. It is not necessary to be in the business, nor is it necessary to spend a lot of money to get started making recordings. (It does help to be a musician, married to a musician or to have musician friends, but unless one is a hermit or curmudgeon musician friends won't be hard to find.)
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Follow Ups:
There is no magic or a particular set of 'technology' in making recordings. What is needed is the DESIRE for good sound quality and an understanding of the science behind what one is doing.
I have heard TL's recordings which he put on the web. They are clean, but the Creative gear he used came thru. In others words, clean but not particularly 'musical' to my ears or concert life like.
"I have heard TL's recordings which he put on the web. They are clean, but the Creative gear he used came thru. In others words, clean but not particularly 'musical' to my ears or concert life like."
You must have a different definition of 'musical' than I do. Perhaps you can explain what you mean.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
I hear the digital glare from the Creative hardware, near 1 D presentation etc. With Piano music, stage properties are more forgiving.
If you are familiar with the sound of run of the mill adaptors compared to high quality ones, you will know what I mean. The cheap and nasty coupling capacitors they use, plus the 741 origin opamps with loads of negative feedback affect the sonic signature a lot.
Interesting. I ask about "musicality" and you reply about "digital glare".
As to depth, there should be none on the studio recordings. They were deliberately made to have as little ambiance as possible. The intention was that they would sound like a piano in the listening room to the maximum extent possible. The concert recordings have depth, particularly those made in Jordan Hall, which is one of the finest small halls around.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Digital glare=not musical. Pianos don't have hf glare.
The semantics in your post is revealing.
No high frequency glare when I play back these recordings on my system. Perhaps your system needs to be better voiced if you are hearing high frequency glare.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
"1 D presentation" or "flat" is a perfectly apt description.
Edits: 04/18/14
'sound like a piano in the listening room to the maximum extent possible.'
This is not a rational argument. Put a piano in a room and there will be ambience. Put it in an anechoic chamber perhaps. But why?
Play the recording in the room in which it was made and there will be ambiance. The ambiance is created by the listening room. It will not be the ambiance of a concert hall, unless you have a concert hall for listening room. If the speakers used have good dispersion then the resulting sound field will be similar to that of the live instrument in the listening room. This works quite well if the listening room is large enough to plausibly contain the instrument and if the actual recording venue is also used for playback, the results can be quite realistic.
This technique is well known. It was used for the successful demonstrations of live vs. recorded sound done by Acoustic Research in the 1960's, where they used a string quartet. (The recordings used for made outdoors.)
I repeat my comment about the necessity of making recordings to understand the process of sound reproduction.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
No one really lives in a house that has a separate "Concert Hall " like listening room, unless
of course your economic bracket,allows you do so. For certain genres of music the recorded
"They are here" listening perspective really does'nt serve the music.
It is much easier to set up a listening room to act as an "extension", or limit the effect the room has, on the recording, than to "create a complete listening enviornment" that never existed.
While "Recording Engineers" should be respected for their knowledge & skills , I think certain
modern recording techniques bear much further scrutiny in favor of older recording perspectives & techniques that resulted in countless exceptional recordings
I don't think you really understand the pyscho acustics of sound reproduction in a room. It is hopeless to try to mimic a concert hall especially since a piano played there will be recorded and processed to the taste of the recordist.
In any case, an instrument played in a room should not have a 1D sound stage or contain digital glare (artefacts)
" It is hopeless to try to mimic a concert hall especially since a piano played there will be recorded and processed to the taste of the recordist."
I am not going to waste any more time arguing with you Fred, because you don't seem to be capable of understanding what I write. You put words in my mouth that I never said and never would say.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
I was thinking about this thread. There is no way (baring lots of money) to reproduce what I heard there in my "listening room". Close is all I can ask for, which includes a taste of the space where the recording was made. However, if it had been recorded to TL's standards, minus the "ambiance" of the venue which was quite awesome, "flat", "this sucks" and "boring" would have been the result.Taking your ball and going home really does make the case that your ears suck despite whatever technical proficiency you claim to have above all others.
You have an informed opinion, that is all.
Edits: 04/21/14 04/21/14 04/21/14
I hope I made it clear that recordings made to transport the musicians and their instruments to the listening room will not work for large ensembles unless the listener is a billionaire and owns a concert hall. Given that pipe organs are generally huge and would never fit in a home, it would be stupid to record a pipe organ without ambiance.
The exception might be a small portable pipe organ. Here's a picture of my favorite. This one was intended to be used outside, so recording with no ambiance would be appropriate. To hear a recording of this organ follow the linked video, starting at 42:15. The movie includes brass, as well... Enjoy :-)
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
of well recorded music are listening for the "ambiance" of where the recording was made.
"I repeat my comment about the necessity of making recordings to understand the process of sound reproduction."
Yeah, we get that, but are not sure if you do.
I think it is a case of 'belief' based on 'conviction'.
LOL. You are barking up the wrong tree here to discuss musicality. The gentleman listens to the zeros and ones that incidentally emanate from his software and hardware.
Hey, its Friday.
rarely anything constructive; just noise
........that you come of sounding like a pompous ass! If you consider audiophiles who play recordings but never make them second class citizens you most certainly need a reality check.
I'd go a lot further with my opinion of you Tony, but The Bored would probably ban me.
Al
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