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In Reply to: RE: 2 Z1 owners posted on hi-rez. posted by oldmkvi on April 04, 2014 at 13:54:29
I checked it out on-line. It looks interesting but doesn't have any digital outputs on the back. That would be a no go for me as I would want to be able to hook it up to an external DAC.
"An ounce of perception, a pound of obscure." - Neil Peart
Follow Ups:
You know having no digital out can be an issue, but when I think about it, wouldnt it have been great if Sony made it with the capability to rip ones SACD's to DSD files on its hard drive.
navman
"wouldnt it have been great if Sony made it with the capability to rip ones SACD's to DSD files on its hard drive."
Yes, it would have been great if SACD didn't come with DRM. I'm not sure that's Sony's fault, however. I blame the RIAA. I also blame the U.S. congressmen who voted for the DMCA, making it illegal to hack products containing DRM.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Cant argue with that.
And its frustrating that I have to copy the analog signal from my SACD player to make a copy for my server.
Oh well.
navman
I'm going to Record LPs and SACDs, like you, in DSD.
What peak recording levels do you get?
Do you go all the way to 0db, or keep it closer to -6 db?
I make sure brief peaks hit 0 db.
navman
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If I were to be digitizing LPs, I don't think I would use DSD. The reason would not be sound quality, it would be the inability to do any editing of the results that eliminated ticks, clicks and pops. All of the available repair software runs on PCM files, so if you wanted to do any cleanup you would need to do a conversion from DSD to PCM and (if desired) back to DSD. Under the circumstances, you would get better sound quality if you just did the initial capture in PCM.
I would recommend digitizing LPs at 176/24 or 192/24.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Does any of the software supplied with DSD recorders..Korg, etc..allow for basic editing like track splitting?
I believe that my Korg Audiogate software has track splitting , but I've never tried track splitting. Track splitting with PCM files requires almost no attention if the music isn't gapless and very little attention if it is gapless. However, my understanding (from people who do this work) is that track splitting of even non-gapless DSD has potential problems requiring some effort to avoid clicks and track splitting of gapless is likely to be even more difficult. (The amount of effort depends on the amount of "digital needle drop" one considers acceptable, a problem for DSD because of its inability to represent DC.)
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Interesting, thank you for this information.
I have the Korg MR2 DSD/PCM recorder on my s hopping list and was curious. I have done many, many tape dubs to 96/24 and the results have been outstanding, and the editing in Audacity is a snap.
I've had the Korg, Sony Much Better IMO!
AudioGate is great, use it all the time, it can be Downloaded for free without buying the Korg Unit.
Thanks for input. Which Sony in particular?Also the Korg "free" version comes with strings attached. Everytime you use it you must sent a "tweet" out for every single thing you do. I gave up.
There are other functional limitations in the free version as well.
Edits: 04/09/14
Hi, That Tweet function is no big deal. When you use the software, a button comes up to Tweet tha you are using it, nothing more, you never have to login again or anything.
I use it to burn DSD Discs for my Sony 5400 to play Downloads, and Live Recordings I've done.
The Sony is PCM D 100, $800 at Sweetwater or B&H Photo.
32 GB Storage, great battery life.
I've done Live and Line Level , both fantastic!
And it has 20db pad for recording louder live Music, which is invaluable.
I find the Tweet requirement incredibly irritating..that is just me...
Thanks for the info on the Sony. At $300 more than the Korg it seems to have a few more features..
You find it's recording quality is superior? Or are you taking the whole package into consideration. Also it comes with Sound Forge I believe..does that work well?
/
Hi, I returned the Korg. I didn't like the sound, for whatever reason, maybe the built in Mics.
I couldn't get high enough recording levels for live, and battery life was poor.
Used a Zoom H4N instead.
I LOVE the sound of the Sony!
Come to think of it the Korg I got was $900, but I could be wrong, maybe $700.
I think Sound Forge is just for Windows and doesn't do DSD, only up to 24/192.
You need MIni pin adaptors, it's a Consumer unit, not pro, but that's not a problem for me, the Quality is just wonderful.
Thanks for all the additional info!
It is not cheap but seems to be as complete a product at this price point as you will see in this category.
/
cool...street price is around $800 btw, as you had originally remembered.
Why do you presume the Sony DAC isn't good enough?
At least having the option would be nice. Many moons ago, I tried an early version of the Olive music server. It's internal DAC really sucked, but at least I could hook it up to an external DAC. Much better that way.
Jack
While the onboard DAC of a SB Touch is decent and I use the analog output in the garage system, I enjoy employing a better external DAC with another Touch used in the main system.
Why presume it IS any good?
I do understand what you mean however. I have found that many integrated digital products generally sound very good with their own internal DAC. What you may gain with a outboard DAC may be nullified by a having to use a digital cable.
What some find a turnoff with the Sony is the closed approach on several of the models. Sony has a a distinct history of discontinuing products and in the end, a modular approach may be smarter.
Have you not read any published or user reviews?
I can understand someone objecting to the lack of digital inputs or outputs because they wish to fit it into their particular system configurations. That is a valid consideration. However, people are, often, too quick to make presumptions about a product without having any first-hand experience and then dismiss it.
And, no, I cannot say that I have read most of the online comments but I have written my own review, shortly to appear.
In this particular case it has more to do with SONY..who have a lame history of rolling out products with great fanfare then dropping them like turds..SACD players, portable players, etc.
If Sony drops a product or support after 5 years or so who cares? Don't all companies have to evolve with the market and move on?
After 5 years or more these products have lost most of their value or have been replaced with newer emerging technologies anyway and it's time to move on to newer toys.
Who the heck is buying SACD players and Walkmans these days anyhow? ;-)
Then why don't you buy a Sony and report back? Don't worry, Steve Job's ghost won't be coming after you...:)
Don't tell Steve's ghost but I've owned some great Sony gear and some not so great. I've never had an issue with repairs or parts so maybe I'm just lucky. Have you had parts/service problems?
The Sony XA7ES CDP was exceptionally good. Sony often gets a bad rap but I love my Sony Bravia LCD/LED TV. In it's class, I thought it was better than any of the Samsungs and LGs that I've seen, and about comparable with a premium Panasonic. Sony AV receivers not so great. I think Denon is better.
I have owned plenty of mid level Sony gear. Never any issues.
FYI..two days ago they just AGAIN discontinued the 5400ES SACD player...
For the THIRD time.
How do they discontinue a model three times? It's either discontinued or it's not, right? What am I not getting? Strange.
2009, 2012, 2014.
I've owned Sony since the 707 CD player.
Right up throught the XA7, 5 disk SACD player and 5400, which is still in production.
Sony players have lots of midrange sound, I like my stock 5400 better than my VSE modded one.
I've owned Dat decks and portables, and now the D 100 DSD Recorder, all fantastic products for their time.
I agree that haven't supported SACD production like many wished, but they are supposed to have a HiRez Download site opening soon.
Maybe that's what they've been preparing for…
you primarily into Multi Ch?
I guess I'm surprised that you're reviewing a 2 Ch unit.
I'm very interested to know more about it!
I still want to read it.
Kal-
will you be reviewing this product soon?
the only review I know of is in TAS by Steven Stone. Stone loves EVERYTHING he reviews, without exception.
Maybe he only gets GOOD Gear to review!
The only complaints ( I read ) were about Streaming, or its lack.
Even the $1000 S1 got great reviews for Sound Quality.
I intend to get the Z1, but have to sell a few things first.
I'm a 2 Ch guy.
A Mytek plus Computer costs more.
I like the simplicity of the Sony, load Files, then listen.
And if I Don't like it more than my Sony 5400, I can send it back.
I use the DSD Disc feature on the 5400 all the time, and I want to hear some of my own
DSD Live recordings played back in Double DSD on the Z1.
Might be awesome…
Actually ,some early adopters are calling the DSD Remastering feature the real star of this player. Steven Stone was one of the few people that was lukewarm over the feature. He a/b a few things & mentioned he couldn't really be sure about there being much difference. I don't find it too surprising that his findings were'nt more conclusive . Our aural memories are far too short to retain what we've just heard & are replaced by the sound of that same music we are listening to at the moment. Our memory is totally overruled, we don't have a choice .
I think a better way to do a comparison would be to listen to a block of selections we may be familiar with the sound of & then listen to a block of the same selections so there is some
time between listening to the same music consecutively. Normally when someone says "I
think I may have heard some differences " this response has been triggered by something.
I know I'm very interested in find out if the DSD Remastering changes some of the characteristics of PCM that in itself would be enough of a win for me to get one. Any other features of this player don't appear to be un obtainable in other players in slightly different ways or features I really don't care about.
I like the DSD section of a SACD, as I can tell a sonic difference-for the better. It will be interesting to hear any difference(s) in download / hi-rez DSD counterpart(s).
Maybe sometime modular is not what one needs.
Regards,
Geoff
Far be it from me to agree with Sprezza, but he has a point. Is now the moment to be calling time on modularity?Every time I turn around, there's a new format or, worse, sampling rate to accommodate. Some of the audiophiles I commune with look back on the good ol' days of CD - so that can't be right. Clearly there are issues with ditching contingency at this point, no?
big j.
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms."
Edits: 04/05/14 04/05/14
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