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Yes, I've read up on this subject and I'm still confused, hence a few questions.
To get the high quality DAC which I *think* I want (subject to home demo), I may be obliged to use a cheap CD player as a transport for a while. Longer term I'd plan to get a good transport. The DAC is likely to be the MSB Analog.
(1) As the DAC is said to reclock everything, might this mean that transport quality becomes less critical?
(2) I wonder about this; take the cheap CD player and isolate the DAC from the signal by cutting the PCB trace going into the DAC. This would eliminate any 'crosstalk' or modulation from the DAC and output stage which might contaminate the digital output signal. Any mileage in this?
(3) I know I won't get the ultimate best results from this, but am I likely to get a very good proportion of the quality of the DAC coming through? That'll be enough for now. A tactical move, allowing me to get a 'strategic' DAC of high quality, rather than compromise on the quality of the DAC.
Yes, I'd love to get the matching transport right away, but I don't think I can run to that. For one thing, it may be better to get the superior PSU right away to save money in the long term.
For the CD player, I'd consider makes like Cambridge (Azur 640 say), and other worthy UK makes as I'm in the UK; any suggestions please?
TIA for any comments.
Follow Ups:
Here's a transport on eBay in the UK for 22 pounds. The seller has also listed a matching DAC for 16 pounds. Problem solved.....
Edits: 03/29/14 03/29/14
I realize the issue of transports is far more complex than I thought, confusing and at odds with simple theory; oh for more simple subjects like interconnect cables (evil grin!).
I have issues with 'packaging' everything into my equipment cabinet which does influence things; some large transports (or players) like early Sony and Teac just don't fit.
I conclude that transports are definitely significant, somewhere around 30% to 50% as the DAC.
But better DACs *may* reduce this, but not eliminate it. And the MSB could/should be one of the better ones at this.
I still like the physical CD, so even if I use computers/servers I'll still want a decent transport.
I have the MSB Analog dac on demo here and love it, I'm getting one. The AT3500 is driving it and results are *astounding*.
I've considered all manner of transports. I'm not keen on some standard UK ones ... it seems you pay more just to have the DAC removed!
Cheaper dedicated ones may be good but if I later upgrade I'll lose a fair bit of money.
So I've chosen to try (and have ordered) a Tascam CD200 for several reasons which seem valid for me personally. Teac transports have a good reputation; it's a fairly heavy unit (suggests adequate power supply and a substantial chassis); cheaper Teac models are much lighter; I've seen reports of it being used as a transport with decent results; it fits my cabinet.
If it performs as well as the AT3500 as transport, I can sell the latter. And I'm hoping it may in fact perform better than the AT ....
If I later upgrade to something better, the Tascam should be a good benchmark; and I won't lose much on the Tascam.
So, right or wrong, I know exactly where I'm going; and enjoying it like mad! :-)
Thanks guys.
I don't think you will be disappointed as Steve Deckert, owner and head chief in charge at Decware uses that exact model as a platform for his digital playback.
........I was a vegetarian for 15 minutes... until the main course.
Hi,
I am pleased and impressed by the excellent responses, all of them are very useful. Here's where I am so far.
First I just intend to try a good DAC on approval, using the existing CD player's digital out, and see if I can just relax, hear the differences, and enjoy the music just as Duster suggests.
If I love it, then there's the matter of a transport (so I can trade in the existing CD player). I'm very tempted to get a current model Sony DVD player eg DVP-SR760H as it's only £30 ($50) new, and Sony DVD players seem to be rated fairly well as transports. I guess this may be less risky than an unknown CD player?
I may then try a Shigaclone, as I'm into DIY. It'll take me a while as I'm busy.
A jitter buster of some form will then go on my list for when funds allow.
John Elison's suggestions are noted! I know little about downloads, music servers etc but I'll go there in due course. In planning how I do it, I will be sure to include John's solution.
The first step is to see if I like the DAC in question; but if I do, I'm happier now about going ahead.
At this point, I think you should simply observe, evaluate, and enjoy the audible results of upgrading a mediocre standalone CD player with a high performance DAC, since it can be a great audiophile experience. I wouldn't be too concerned about anything more than selecting a high performance 75 ohm S/PDIF digital coaxial cable or a high performance digital optical cable in order to at least better optimize the interface between the CD player and the new DAC. Then, when funds become available, seek a high performance digital transport that's a good match with notable synergy when mated with the specific make/model DAC. In the meantime, enjoy the ride.
BTW, +1 for the Monarchy Audio DIP.
That's exactly what I've done; I have the MSB Analog dac at home on demo, and indeed it is 'a great audiophile experience'.
I'm getting one. More details later in my other thread.
I would strongly suggest getting the Empirical Audio Synchro-Mesh, a reampler functionally similar - but at a higher performance level - to the Monarchy reclocker mentioned elsewhere on this thread. It's a mere $600, made by a reputable company and given your level of investment, it is frankly a no-brainer. I too use it with a relatively pedestrian CD player.
I've used a couple of different 'cheap' CD players as transports. I'm currently using a discontinued Pioneer DVD player. Some of the transports sounded good. Others played like wimps, no dynamics, even some well regarded ones. So unfortunately the DAC does not retime as theory says it should.
I'll add I use 2 Monarchy dejitter devices in series between my DAC and CD drive and they make a difference also.
If digital out is digital out, how does the transport in any way effect the bits coming off the disc when sending it to the outboard DAC? If the DAC re-times the signal and reduces jitter, what in effect could a better transport possibly do to make the signal any better? I am getting a Bryston BDA-2 and plan on hooking up either my Sony SCD-XA5400ES or a Luxman D-112 CD player to the unit.
Braxus,
A very good question indeed!
I'm just a music lover first and a gearhead a distant second and have wondered about that. It would be great if a kind and knowledgeable Inmate would post a short explanation here.
Logic tells me that the Philips disc transport in my (built like a tank) Jolida JD 100 CD player when used strictly as a transport should do a fine job of supplying a signal to my Audio Note Kit DAC 2.1B as it seems to do when I've been listening to the this combination over the last couple of months. What (in reality) am I missing by not going to a more "high end" transport?
Cheers,
Al
A friend of mine used the Jolida JD 100 as a CD player, and subsequently as a transport for a DAC - using the same sound reasoning you put forth. I advised him to do so as well.He then bought a Musical Fidelity-M1 CDT transport and asked me to come listen. I told him I wanted to listen to the JD-100 first. When I arrived the JD 100 had been playing for several hours. I listened to it for a while; it sounded good, as it always had. Then he put in the M1 CDT and inserted a disc. A few minutes into the song, I looked over at him and laughed. Cold, with no run-in, it was so obviously better; all I could do was laugh.
That's all I needed to hear.
Edits: 04/06/14
Do you know what transport Musical Fidelity-M1 CDT uses? Thanks.
--Ze'ev
No I do not. Perhaps it can be identified from the picture below. You may want to contact MF and ask them (see link below the picture).
Thanks.
--Ze'ev
Another option would be to forget about the transport entirely and rip all your CDs to a USB hard drive using Exact Audio Copy . Then set up an inexpensive notebook computer as a music server using Foobar2000 streaming freeware.
I had a fairly expensive transport and DAC. I decided to go to a music server and I think it sounds as good or better than my transport. Moreover, it is much more convenient selecting different CDs with the click of a mouse in addition to being able to construct playlists of my favorite songs.
Good luck,
John Elison
"(1) As the DAC is said to reclock everything, might this mean that transport quality becomes less critical?"
On paper, this should be the case. But in reality, it is not....
"(2) I wonder about this; take the cheap CD player and isolate the DAC from the signal by cutting the PCB trace going into the DAC. This would eliminate any 'crosstalk' or modulation from the DAC and output stage which might contaminate the digital output signal. Any mileage in this?"
Not sure what you're stating here... If you cut the PCB trace to the DAC, the DAC would no longer get an input signal.
I've generally gotten better results with a good transport and a mediocre DAC than with a mediocre transport and a good DAC.....
Sorry, I didn't make it clear.
It's about the CD player used as transport only; disable its internal dac by cutting the signal to it, so the only thing active is reading the disc and sending the digital out signal.
The best CD transport for the least amount of money is the Shigaclone which contains no dac. For years this transport has been improved and improved by the diy community.
i have been following shigaclone build thread,but being a NON DIY enthusiast,i would ask members for their suggestion,Is there availabilty of a CKD ready to assemble kit of shigaclone or pitbull transport,which i can screw and start transport.
Thanks
Big thanks!
I've had a quick look and will follow up.
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