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Been out of the audio loop for a while. But might get a CD player to go with my headphone system for some late night listening. Not sure what's available these days. What would you suggest as far as new or even used players, ignoring budget factors for now?
Looking for disc players, not PC audio, which I use in my main system.
Thanks!
Follow Ups:
I am still getting joy out of putting silvery disks in a CD player and a DVD player. But, it's days are numbered. I will still like collecting the CDs, but putting them in a digital storage system will be mandatory in my future -- as soon as I can figure out how to do it! I wouldn't want to pay more than for a good CD player, though.
The Krell Cipher...I owned the 505 and the SACD Standard and found that Krell's take on digital is dynamic, detailed and musical...if only they could work out the bugs that have plagued their digital equipment:O)
dave_b
I PERSONALLY wouldn't invest in anything but a commodity CD player. Or perhaps a 'universal' player. My OPPO 981dv will spin SACD. At the 500$ level of NAD, Rotel, CA or a few others produce players using the same transport as much more $$ players and just as durable.
Recently, in looking over *who* uses *what* transport, I saw that CA used the SAME Sanyo transport from the 340 to the 840. Come'on now! Unless it is built to last, (doubt it) and has much in the way of vibration / resonance control features designed in, I'd skip it.
So, my 840c had the SAME transport as a player selling for 20% of the price. Not even a upgrade to a Phillips CDM series 'pro'.
My CAs transport is the SAME as used in the MCD1000 from Macintosh...
CA isn't the only one to do this. Other companies with wide lines also use the same transport thruout. Denon uses Sony transports almost exclusively.
NAD is interesting in that they appear to use....or have used.....transports from everybody. Sony? Phillips? Sanyo? and even Toshiba.....(license made Sony?)
So, with that in mind, I'll stick with a commodity Disc spinner and a good outboard DAC. Or, at least as good as I can afford. The DAC becomes a new 'hub' component feeding the integrated thru balanced. All my music now comes from internet radio (only OK, usually), small dish XM/Sirius or ALAC files from borrowed, begged or stolen CDs.
This even, using optical, eliminates the possibility of ground loops. A plus? My computer even streams audio thru BlueTooth! and without using the USB or an optical input.....nice!
So, unless 'ya simply gotta have it, I'd skip it. Computer audio has come a long way. I suppose, in retrospect, it was inevitable. From the first CD players...like my Magnevox top loader over ...there.... which were essentially a dedicated computer...to modern file systems and really cool players / storage / servers...digits have been king for 30 years.
Too much is never enough
Oppo 95 allows you to play damn near any medium
In my opinion and many professional companies such as Accuphase,
Esoteric, and now Austrian company Ayon ,their cd5s which all the above companies use the Burr Brown 1704k dacs 4 inthis player which is also Vacuum tube which has 4 for the powersupplys and 2 per channel which is a true single ended Triode line stage
Preamplifier which makes this cd player totally unique. This player is th most
Natural analog sounding digital player I have ever heard at around $12k it is very expensive
But use the best parts quality Ihave ever seen from he Kitamura R core transformers
To the Mundorf Silver oil, and silver Gold ol capacitors
Well worth the look.
The CD Player that I would/want to buy in the Audio Research Ref CD8. I would also take an Audio Research CD7 as well.
Second runner would be a Cary 306SACD PRO.
"An ounce of perception, a pound of obscure." - Neil Peart
I enjoyed and appreciate all of the input - some great information. Unfortunately, I have to buy a new laptop so that takes priority right now.
But as it stands, after a lot of reflection I was coming back around to PC audio. What I did do for the time being is purchase the Audioengine D2 wireless communicator and DAC. It will allow me to stream the music off of the Macbook Pro in my main system to the receiver unit, to which I will connect my headphone amp. I don't know if it will sound "awesome" but it is getting favorable reviews, and it's convenient and not that expensive.
I still feel "nostalgic" for a CD player someday (I grew up with them), but we'll see. There seems to be some interesting advances in PC audio, such as downloadable DSD files (which I don't know much about yet). I finally gave away all of my LPs, which were simply never going to get used again.
...but you'd be crazy not to try high-quality computer audio. A pristine used Mac Mini, Pure Music, and a MF V-Link II plus good interconnects could be had for under $1k.
The innumerable variables of PC, music player, system configuration, interconnects, DDC, and interface with the DAC make "fair" comparisons unachievable but you might think it's a giant-killer. Its the future, baby, and you gotta love giant-killers. If it sucked, you could Craigslist it for $600 or give it to your kids and not feel wounds like the gash that a $5k CD player that sucked could inflict. Just a suggestion...
I'd spend more money on the DAC and get a cheapo / semi-disposible player. Maybe one of the budget NAD or CA offerings.
Too much is never enough
I would only by an SACD player, even for a stereo system. The SA8004 has had good reviews, the only obvious drawback at the price is that it's not multi-channel.The SA8004 also handles digital input so could potential obviate the need for as stand-alone DAC.
~~~~~~~~~~~
... 99%'er
Edits: 03/03/12
Actually I just bought a CDP this week for my first headphone system. I've always liked the Rega Apollo for its engaging and lively sound. Getting a new one at $699 was a nice price I thought. I also bought a Schiit Valhalla headphone amp to go with some AKG 702's. Breaking everything in right now and I hope to do some critical listening soon.
And recommend it highly. Superb sound quality, and built like the proverbial tank.
Also has isosynchronous USB input.
"Your liver suffers dearly now for youthful magic moments...so rock on completely with some brand new components"
It has a user selector for zero filtering, analog filtering, synchronous oversampling digital filtering, or asynchronous upsampling digital filtering........ It would be nice if it could also select the sharpness of the rolloff in the digital filtering........ (I think a gradual rolloff digital filter is the best sounding of all.)
The only negative is the product ain't cheap..................
...don't you just need a gradual roll-off digital filter?
"...don't you just need a gradual roll-off digital filter?"
If I were to buy a new CD player or DAC, what I would choose would have that particular type of digital filter. Specifically one that is also minimum phase.
Just bought one with exactly those characteristics.
NT.
My first choice, if I were spending that much.
big j.
"... only a very few individuals understand as yet that personal salvation is a contradiction in terms ."
If I could go out and buy any CD player brand new it would either be the GoldeNote Favard tubed CD Player from Italy seen at the link below or else I'd buy the French Metronome Kalista as seen here:
http://www.metronome-technologie.com/admin/pop_up_image.php? num=285&ordre=1 If you like what you see you can read more about here: http://www.metronome-technologie.com/
I'm listening to:
Thetubeguy1954 (Tom Scata )
Full-range/Wide-range Drivers --- Front & Back-Loaded Horns
Central Florida Audio Society -- SETriodes Group -- Space Coast Audio Society
=================================================================================
"The man that hath no music in himself, nor is not moved with the concord of sweet sounds, is fit for treasons, deceptions, and spoils;
The motions of his spirit are dull as night and his affections dark as Hell. Let no such man be trusted."
- William Shakespeare from The Merchant of Venice; Act V,i
Completely unknown to me. I'll look for the opportunity to listen to these on my travels in the EU.
"You don't need to be a Weatherman to know which way the wind blows"
it would probably cost around the $2-5K zone, which I've heard most of the current players available, although not all, and not all within my system.
The final verdict would come down to:
- How they perform/synergy within my system.
- Prefer a digital-in feature.
- No tube rolling, and or models that rely on variable filter choices for "best" sound.
- Redbook only.
- A companies past history of product retention would be important, especially the longevity and quality of prior models. Companies that have a history of changing models faster than I change underwear will quickly be omitted.
- Build quality is obviously important, and so is service reputation. A 3-5 year warrantee is a commitment by a company to the longevity of it's product(s). Does the company have a history of producing products for long term usage?
It would also have to better my current player within my system, especially from a transparency, bandwidth, noise floor point of view, something that has rarely happened.
From a pure sound perspective, it would require above average ...
- Transparency & focus.
- Dimensionality.
- Noise floor clarity, no fogs or veils, or opaqueness which inflict many models regardless of cost.
- Dynamic contrast and true instrumental impact at the frequency extremes, a typical budget player constraint, but often lacking in top-end players.
- Top end frequency control w/consistent tonality; not a fan of players that become "screamers" when pushed beyond their capability during complex music.
- HDCD, not a must, but certain a big consideration based on my present CD collection. Top-notch HDCD players have (often large) inherited advantages over non-HDCD players with proper coded HDCD disks.
If I was to purchase used ... first & foremost I'd consider a Linn Majik. I'd also consider an Ayre or Naim and would certainly like to try a Resolution Audio CDP firsthand.
Sound Q alone, isn't enough ... case in point ... I truly luv the sound of certain Sim players, but past models did not retain their value based on this companies history of very short life spans or quickly discontinued models. Look, if I spend $2-5K on a new machine, I expect that model to be in existence for some time, or it won't be worth near it's initial investment from a resale point of view.
That said, hopefully I won't be in the market for a long time yet, since I could easily live with my present player for years to come. And truth be told, if I was in the market, I'd either buy a solid-reputation used alternative for fair price, or go the music-server route.
tb1
.
near irreplaceable within my system synergy & design.
Not long ago I took it with me to a store to audition it along side some expensive alternatives. The first player they pitted it up against was the cheapest, but still relatively expensive Bryston player, which was supposedly "superior" since "newer" and unlike the Ikemi (or any Linn player), the Bryston uses a discrete output stage.
I told the saleman that it was not going to be a fair comparison for the Bryston (just consider the vast history and experience of these two companies with digital), and he just dismissed the notion and laughed ... until the audition took place.
The rest of the day was just as interesting.
tb1
Bryston doesn't have a long history in making source components yet and from what I hear they are having some initial teething problems ( including their network products )
I know newer isn't necessarily better as I prefer Linn's older digital products than current ones.
The CD12 was one of the finest CD player I have ever heard and still holds up today. ( albeit I am not sure if Linn supports this legacy product now )
> > Bryston doesn't have a long history in making source components yet and from what I hear they are having some initial teething problems ( including their network products ) < <
The Bryston was actually pretty good, it compared well with the rest of the pack.
> > I know newer isn't necessarily better as I prefer Linn's older digital products than current ones. < <
I can understand why some people may prefer the sound of the older Linn models. I do, but I like the new versions also ... in fact one of the most interesting comparisons I've ever made is between Linn & Linn, the Ikemi and it's replacement, the Majik.
The final versions of Linn players were in fact more transparent, not as dark, and even leaner (which is saying much since Linn digital has always been "lean"). However, some newer versions did not include the Linn proprietary transport, so they had the disadvantage of not having quite the same musical ooomph ... in other words ... they lacked instrumental impact in comparison to the Ikemi or Karik III (just like the Genki did).
> > The CD12 was one of the finest CD player I have ever heard and still holds up today. < <
Still better than the vast majority today. I've only heard a few digital products since that have impressed me nearly to that same degree.
The CD12 was in fact the first CDP which provided me the illusion that CD could be truly "musical". Prior to that, I was never really convinced that digital technology was ever going to reach "audiophile" quality.
The CD12 had advantages in area's that digital, including hi-rez, still struggle to achieve today.
1) superb overall transparency
2) best in class noise floor characteristics
3) outstanding dimensionality
4) total lack of digital hash or grain
5) amazing tonal quality & control during even the most complex passages
6) true instrumental impact @the freq. extremes
7) optional HDCD at it's best
The Ikemi was the CD12 little baby brother, although not as resolute or romantic (actually the CD12 romantic side was considered it's Achilles heal by some), the Ikemi does include much of the CD12 main advantages.
I consider it to be the best real-world Linn digital player ever built, and perhaps one of the best all-round players period. Certainly I was lucky, because I've heard the Ikemi struggle in other systems, even though it fits into my particular system like a silk glove.
tb1
Has anyone mentioned the Oppo players? Some of them seem promising as well.
What are the thoughts on this one?
I've owned a CD100A for a long time (I think I got it the second year of production). It's been retubed once, and also cleaned the laser once. It just goes and goes. The sound is fairly liquid (tubes?), and kinda analog like sounding. The remote could be used as a deadly weapon!! I have tried it using the digital out into a DAC, and just didn't see any improvement. To be honest with you it has a better sound than my old Sony 9000ES playing redbook stuff, and was the equale of my Marantz 8260 in everything.
I certainly feel I got my money's worth out of it; even if it died tomorrow morning! I have entertained the thought of sending it out for mods, but then again I might just get something new. Right now I'm interested in the Sony 5400ES.
gary
Gary
I had one of those a looong time ago... nice machine.
I have an Ayre CX7e-MP and love it - seems like plenty of others here do too. I only have one complaint about it ...
There is no option for other inputs. You can only play CD's and can't use it with a computer input (e.g. USB and others). I think if I was going to buy something new right now that this would be a future proof feature that I think should be included on any digital processing device.
A gentleman is best defined as someone who knows how to play the accordion ... and doesn't.
I wouldn't argue that it is the best CDP on the market but in its price range it is tough to beat* and Ayre product support is second to none. Even if I had the pockets for the $8k+ products I think it is hard to justify given that this seems to be the (probably protracted) twilight of the CD format.
*I prefer it to the Bryston BCD-1, Rega Saturn and the Sony SCD-XA5400ES
I just got a Rega Saturn demo model for $1350, so the Ayre is now in another price range (at $3500). I would like to hear the Ayre sometime.
Biggest difference between them is there is more openness, transparency, airiness, bass authority (and control) - a real transparency. Along with that, there is a good sense of timing that you can, with the right chain to the speakers, get a real sense of immediacy and "you are there" - that I have only found with equipment that cost multiples of what Ayre charges. The C-5xeMP has a lower noise floor, and more of the above.The top end is ever so slightly soft - but not in a rolled off way, but in a very natural way. While capable of reproducing the "audiophile feats and stunts" we are all used to ... such as close miked singing with minimal instrumentation that has the 10' tall floating head image ... it really is very very natural sounding and soundstaging.
The Ayre doesn't sound much like "analog" nor does it sound "digital" ... it really is that good.
Where I find the Rega is a great player as it gives a very tonally correct presentation, with good bass, and treble - and very very musical. It does not have as much forward presence as the Ayre (and close to the same amount of detail) - and for most modern recordings, that's a good thing! If you prefer being back a bit and not sitting in the front row (or in some cases sitting amongst the musicians!!) - the Rega has a good presentation.
The closest manufacturer to Rega in my mind for CD Players is Marantz.
The closest to Ayre is Naim.
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"
Edits: 03/02/12 03/02/12
I agreed with nearly every aspect of your post, until ...
> > The closest to Ayre is Naim. < <
I consider these players to different to be considered "closest".
That said, I can understand from a high-frequency aspect the comparison, since both these house players are NOT fully realized on top, perhaps a bit soft, compared to many competitors. And while both are above average regarding noise floor and transparency characteristics, they go about these very differently.
Both are on the darker side of neutral, but Naim much more so, and from a dimensionality standpoint, they're obviously very different. In fact, from a dimensionality point of view, I think Naim has long had the most unique (not necessarily good or bad) soundstage characteristics of any digital manufacturer.
Personally, I found the later Krell players, like the Standard, to be more "Naim" like. I find Ayre to have a more traditional hi-end sound, but one that is obviously very highly refined.
tb1
You very elegantly fleshed out what I was far more clumsily alluding to. I'm not sure that I entirely agree that the Ayres and Naims are sonically cut from the same cloth but it has been a few years since I last heard Naim CDPs. I have, however, liked both the Ayres and the Naims better than much of the field so you may well be correct.
I already own a SA-7S1, but if I were buying today I would get the SA-11S2. Upgrade the main power fuse with a Hi-Fi Tuning Supreme and you're in business.It's built like a tank and gives you at least 90% of the performance of the SA-7S1 for about half the price. I believe they are being phased out, so you might be able to get an even better deal.
If it were built by a smaller manufacturer (ex. Playback Designs, Ayre, etc.) instead of Marantz/D&M Holdings, it would probably cost twice as much. BTW, I forgot to mention that great SACD playback is included in the price!
Gerry
Edits: 03/01/12
Truely amazing sound. Elevates "some" cd's to SACD sound. One of the best purchases I have ever made and THE best audio purchase I ever made.
or used Krell kps25s.
Naim at that level is too rich for my blood! :-O
But yeah, their CD Players are first rate, and they have always marched to their own drummer.
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"
but the CDX/555PS if bought used is less and so is the Krell. I've seen the kps25s as low as 5k. I like both companies as they still service and back up their legacy products and I like the sound of those units.
My kps25s just came back from a check up. There aren't many companies out there who service 15+year old CD players. ( and they also still have parts! )
Naim is the same way. They will back up their product as long as they can.
Don Allen-modified Philips 935 5-disc changer.
Is there a website for Don Allen stuff?
Don does not have a website. Email me if you want his contact information.
Anyone else out there thinking of getting a new CD player. Join the crowd! Go do it! Let's keep this string going. ;-)
I was considering a nice, expensive CDP but realized that with a simple PC (Gateway SX-2802 refurb, around $400), stock sound card (Realtek High Definition Audio Player, automatically upsamples all input to 24/192 playback) and schiit bifrost (non-oversampling DAC, spdif implementation, $350), I have asskicking sound that hasn't been overscrutinized, therefore not overpaid for as well! How this sounds as good as it does is beyond me. KISS.
Freedom is the right to discipline yourself.
I certainly won't be throwing out my CD's any time soon. Glad they aren't touting the server-as-source model as "perfect sound forever" ...
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"
...doesn't quite rise to the level of buying a new one, but I guess it's better than ... throwing it out!
Jim
Jim's on one phone, and I'm on the other. Call now! And if you order in the next 10 minutes, we'll throw in a Brazilian Power Crystacrystal (copywright Bell-Austin Enterprises) absolutely free! Just place it on top of your CD player and it will double the output current of your amplifier!*
*{only works in Brazil in areas with no access to electricity)
Edits: 02/29/12
.
I just bought a Rega Saturn. You can get deals on them right now as the current Saturn model is being discontinued.
Rather, I ordered one. I got the Ayre (CD-7eMP)
Jim
That is a great CD Player - you will love it!
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"
Full disclosure: I work for Harman International.
The harman/kardon HD 990 CD player has 24-bit/384KHz DACs. The friendly folks at h/k are so geeked about the DACs that the unit has two digital input ports (coax + optical) for external sources.
I have no use for the CD mechanism. 100% of my music playback anywhere in the house is from a central dematerialized bits-only library. But I run the output of a Cakewalk/Roland UA-25EX USB sound device on the computer in my home office over an optical cable into the 990, rather than going to an AVR directly. I do it for the DACs.
This is the computer on which I do all my audio processing to liberate source material from physical media. And I'm using a CD player to listen to it.
I think the DACs make the setup "future proof." But oh, the irony.
Cheers,
TGD
In Aurem (In One Ear ...) Where the analog music past meets the digital future.
New 28-Feb
Tom,
How would the sound of the HK 990 compare to a HK DVD 48 on redbook cd's?
Not sure a DAC is "future proof" as the mechanism for transport between computer (or other source) to DAC - as well as the ultimate resolution and file formats haven't been worked out.
It IS proof against the present - in that digital audio is both convenient, fun and SPDIF and TOSLINK are well supported.
RIght now the "hot" thing is Asynchronous USB ... but there are people starting to play with DSD and who knows what means of transport will be used in the future (Thunderbolt? Something else?)
In any event - sounds like fun!
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"
Please go back into your 'profile' and classify yourself as an industry member with the 'M' next to your name. You can also peruse the rules for 'industry' types in the rules section, found on this template, above the text field we type in.
Thanks and enjoy your stay!
Chris
I certainly can do that, although I am not here as a representative of Harman and Harman does not endorse any of my opinions. I used that disclaimer to identify that, even though I was describing personal experience and gear, I was speaking positively about one of my company's products.
Cheers,
TGD
In Aurem (In One Ear ...) Where the analog music past meets the digital future.
New 28-Feb
... Tom was extremely upfront, and I didn't feel at all like he was being a shill.
I support the policy, but I think it's important to acknowledge that Tom seemed to be acting in very good faith and in a principled manner.
For what it's worth.
Jim Austin
*
generally industry types can answer specific questions about their company's products, or they can post about their products to clear up any misinformation. Otherwise, unsolicited commentary about said products is verboten.
I'll generally give people a little more rope, but we don't want the industry types giving us a sales pitch, or infomercial.
Take care, Chris
I replaced the CD in my bedside headphone system with a MacBook Pro + Itunes + a Wavelength Proton DAC that feeds my SinglePower MPX-3 tube headphone amp or my BC SBH. It's a big improvement over my Arcam CD192-T with my K-701 headphones.
Art Dudley (I think) recently reviewed the Proton on Stereophile. It will also drive my K-701s directly without an amp, but I prefer to use a headamp.
"You don't need to be a Weatherman to know which way the wind blows"
Yeah, I guess in the back of my mind I might still consider PC audio for this setup. Just had this nostalgic feeling for tangible discs.
Pitch Perfect Audio in San Francisco is a Wavelength USB Dac dealer.
"You don't need to be a Weatherman to know which way the wind blows"
You know, I had a WA Crimson and ended up preferring the Resolution Audio Cantata. Though both are very good.
The Proton is the "lightest" of their models and hardly in the same class as the two you mentioned. I like it (and my MacBook Pro) because it travels well as a portable headphone DAC and equals or betters the sound of most CD players in the under $2500 class that I have listened to.
It doesn't work nearly as well in my main system, and since it is battery powered it can't drive headphones like the Audeze, alone (without adding a fairly high dose of current of from a headphone amp). As i wrote earlier, it matches very well with K-701s in a stand-alone mode and is perfect for me on "small" bands with my SinglePower head amp.
"You don't need to be a Weatherman to know which way the wind blows"
Hi all ! Gosh , this thread couldnt have been started at a better time . My Cary 303/300 bit the dust last week and although I have ordered a transport for it , I am not sure I will be successful repairing it (not willing right now to give them $500 to fix it ) . So I have been looking around a bit and decided I will wind up with either an Ayon cd-2s ( $6500 retail ) or an Ayon cd-1sc ( $4750 retail ) These players , according to their owners , are very dynamic and very musical . This kinda goes with my new discovery of high efficiency speakers and low tube power .
I suppose it depends on your budget ...
You can get killer performance for about $3k ... at that level the transports and transport functions will be first rate, the DAC will be well selected and designed, and the output stages will be using discrete components with enough feedback to imporve a great open loop response, but not enough feedback to create transient based distortion. At $3k-ish, I'd recommend the following "usual suspects" - each brings something a little different to the table - all sound fantastic, and all are "neutral," but tonally each is slightly different. None of these will have the glare you get when your transport doesn't prevent jitter, none will lack warmth (the lack usually caused by issues with the output stage and feedback - and sometimes jitter with the transport), and all will have nice quiet noise floors (good power supply design), and all will have good, controlled bass (power supply, output stage design):
1) Rega Saturn (warm and rounded sound - lots of people who look for the "sound" of vinyl with the convenience of CD will love this one)
2) Ayre C-7xeMP (Authoritative detailed, great transients - my personal favorite)
3) Cary CD-500(Detailed with extension, usually you can switch in oversampling, tubes)
4) Naim CD5 XS (really rhythmic, sense of less than airy treble - but that can cgange depending upon power supply, and, frankly, the liveliness of the room, or cans etc. It is subtle, second favorite - I'd imagine it would pair with Grados really really well, but haven't tried it)
Above $3k, in my opinion, you should get additional features in addition to great CD playback - such as SACD which is fading but hardly dead (and if you prefer Classical ... still a great medium well used!):
1. Ayre C-5xeMP (SACD, DVD-A, CD) - DVD-A great if you take a high rez downloaded file and burn it to a DVD - sounds great
2. Marantz SA-7S1 (maybe S2 on the way) - SACD and CD, switchable filters
3. Esoteric X-05 (SACD/CD)
4. Cary CD-303T, 306 (swap tubes, sample rates)
You can, of course spend any amount on a disc spinner - but CD only the "sweet spot" is in my opinion, $3k. and $6-7k for that plus more capability. You can find great players for less - but they won't quite be as good generally. And the players that cost more, will offer more detail, presentation, and audiophile qualities - but to get full enjoyment of it - the rest of the chain needs to be up to the task - and for me at least, you can get the sense of "immediacy" and "you are there" at these levels.
Good luck!
Oh ... and one reason so many people are high on DAC's is that you can get a fantastic DAC for less then $2k that is comparable in performance to a player that would cost 3-4 times it - and with selection of an inexpensive disc spinner (like the Oppo-93) you might be able to have a CD source that will equal anything in the above list.
(I think a pretty cool setup might be an Oppo-93 driving a Rega DAC with a 75 Ohm SPDIF - total cost would be less than $2k and it would punch at the $3k+ CD Player level and you'd get SACD, DVD-A playback - even if SACD wouldn't be bit perfect)
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"
Thanks!
I'm not at all clear on what it means to have (or not have) bit-perfect SACD. I certainly understand "bit perfect" -- just not in an SACD context.
Are you just saying that for SACDs, the output to the DAC would be PCM, not DSD, and probably of lower fidelity?
Thanks,
Jim
"I'm not at all clear on what it means to have (or not have) bit-perfect SACD. I certainly understand "bit perfect" -- just not in an SACD context."
I should think that bit perfect SACD would mean that the DSD bits on the disk are transferred to the DAC unchanged. Specifically, the bits going to the DAC would correspond to the DSD master file produced during the mastering process. (The actual pits on the disk would be the result of losslessly compressing the bit stream, encrypting with a DRM key, and then encoding with the optical disk format coding. All of these operations, undone correctly, should produce the original bit stream.)
What the DAC does with these bits are something else. If the bit stream is sent to a flip flop and this is clocked and low pass filtered then the DAC itself is a pure DSD implementation. If the DAC upsamples the DSD to even higher sampling rates then I would say this is still a pure DSD implementation. (Example, the ESS SABRE chips.) However, if the DAC downsamples to a lower sample rate then this would not constitute pure DSD, wherever done. Among other reasons, transients would be smeared due to the necessary filtering.
There is no fundamental difference between PCM and DSD once one considers the application of dither and noise shaping in the PCM environment, as is common today. DSD64 is nothing but noise shaped PCM with a sample rate of 2,822,400 Hz and a word length of 1 bit.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Yeah - you got it. But it is also a bit of speculation on my part. But given most DAC's don't support DSD, it would be a good thing - and the loss of fidelity may be negligible, too.
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad"
Joe
Abbington Music Research (AMR) CD77 MSRP $10,999.00 or for less money the AMR CD777 MSRP $4999.00. Do A search and read the reviews, these are the closests to analog that I have ever heard.
Good Luck,
Rodge
"Grow older not up !!!"
Jimmy Buffett
*
"Your liver suffers dearly now for youthful magic moments...so rock on completely with some brand new components"
Looks impressive but I'm probably not willing to go that high.
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