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I just received my P-3A, P-1A, and Monolithic power supply on Friday afternoon. I have listened to it with 3 different transports, and run it through 2 different pre-amps. I have been playing music through both units continuously since they arrived.Currently, I am using a Meridian 207 as a transport (built in 1987 if you were wondering). This connects to the P-1A via a Cardas coax cable a buddy let me borrow. I connect the P-1A to the P-3A via the supplied I2s cable. This goes out to either an Adcom GS-700 pre-amp (actually, this device has two analog pass throughs with volume control, and 3 amps. a HT add on thing), or back to the Meridian 207 line level inputs (yes, these early Meridians were also full featured pre-amps, which made sense since the speakers are active). The output here goes through 3 meter Kimber PBJ interconnects to my Meridian M20 active speakers. I have switched between 3 different interconnects including radio shack gold, low grade Monster, and some cables my Dad got in the UK named Shark (sp).
I have tried every possible combination of output bit density, clock rate, and "enhancement". Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to make the output sound any better than the P-3A in a stand alone configuration. I was thinking my pre-amp was the problem, but that doesn't make sense because I can hear the difference between using my DVD player, the Meridian 207, and a MicroMega CD player as transports.
Some info that may be related: I set the P-1A to 24/96k and set the P-3A to I2s direct. When I do this, program light on the P-3A toggles between green and orange. I thought it should be green only. Orange seems to flash every 4 seconds or so.
More info. The manual states that the second light on the P-3A will indicate the input clock rate, but my light is always green, even if I set the P-1a to output at other rates. The only exception to this is in I2s direct mode. In this mode, I can see the corresponding LED color on the P-3A (with 96k having the strange orange flashing).
I think I stumbled into some type of diagnostic display on my P-1A. If I hold the program button for a few seconds to get the "menu", and then hold the input button down, I get a series of light displays. I have no idea what this is, but I'm wondering if I could have screwed something up in this menu???
The P-3a is a definite improvement over my CD Player's built-in DAC. The bass is much better defined, and the presentation is stronger. It didn't open the soundstage much as I had hoped but:
a. Not the world's best pre-amp/cables.
b. Unit isn't fully broken in.
c. Expected P-1A to make a difference.I regard myself as having pretty good ears for this stuff, but the P-1A just isn't doing much if anything. Every review I have read states that the difference the P-1A makes is unmistakable and substantial.
Anyone have an idea? I will contact PT on Monday, but wondered if anyone else here would have experience with this or tips. I will post the resolution to this issue when/if I get it sorted out.
Also, what type of difference will I experience between the sound I get now (30 hours break in) and what I will hear after 200 hours? Subtle? Unmistakable?
Thanks,
Scott Boje
Follow Ups:
I have now found out that if I set the P-1A to output 96k through either of the 2 coax cables I have available, the P-3A will keep clicking. This happens even if the P-1A and the P-3A are the only electrical devices powered up within an 8 foot radius, the CATV is disconnected from wall, and the only input to the P-1A is power from the Monolithic supply! So it seems that even in the absence of a input digital signal to the P-1A, the two components still can't lock properly. With everything hooked back up, I get drop-outs from the sound. Through I2s, I only see the sampling rate LED flicker... there are no drop-outs.If you haven't read all the posts, one of my initial complaints was that in I2S direct mode at 96k, my second light flashes between green and orange, instead of staying solid green (which indicates 96k).
So armed with my new data, I have to assume that one of these devices is having a problem with 96k. I wish I had another 96k source to pump into the P-3A to figure out which component is having the problem.
I appologize if it seems I am belaboring the point here, but it seems some other folks have some similar symptoms. I would like to point out that the people at PT have not let me down in any way, as I've only called once and they are at Comdex anyway. They were friendly on the phone, and it seems others have been treated right by them too.
-Scott Boje
Folks at PT said the flashing orange light is an issue with clock sync and it isn't unusual. If there is a culprit, it would be my CD transport according to them.-scott
that doesn't make sense to me sense i have the p-1a upsampling the transport. why would the light go from 96 to 48k about every 5 seconds. anyway i wonder if it's more of a p-1a issue.
Hi Scott,Hmmmmm.........
Did you tell Perpetual that you had the same results with 3 different transports?
- Charlie
Not only does it happen with both transports I have right now, but it even happens on PAUSE!! The explanation I received is that if the CD player gets a bit behind or ahead, you will see that light come on. Why can't these devices have a memory buffer like a cheapo sony walkman to rid people of these ridiculous timing issues? Must be a real challenge.Now here is something interesting. If the P-1A is outputing at 96khz, my TV picture gets some sort of diagonal line interference. As soon as the P-1A is returned to 44.1k, no more interference. This is one area where the P-1A has made a profound difference! Ok, I know that is rude... just being funny.
I realize they recommend running 44.1k out of the P-1A, but it has the technology, and to me it seems the music is a bit livelier with the P-1A doing the upsample. So I'm a little concerned. It has the capability, I should be able to use it.
I can say the P-1A smooths things out, but the music is also less lively. I think the CD Enhancement sucks a little more life out, and can throw some things out of ballance (tonaly). For example, bells in an orchestral piece or over exagerated. At this point, I feel like this thing is more of a tone control than a true high-end audio device... but I will continue to give it time. I will experiment more once it does, and try to get more serious about scrutinizing different settings. Maybe I will just pick up a used Levinson 360S and get a part time at McDonalds to pay for it.
I will say the soundstage is slowly improving...
-Scott
mine is also doing the same thing with the changing light colors in direct mode. i'm still wondering if it's more of an issue with the p-1a then the transport. i also thought the p-1a doing the upsampling sounded better on my system then having the p-3a doing it. on my system with the p-1a active the music seems more lively but on some recordings it sounds better to bypass i've found. as for the picture thing are the p-1a/p-3a and the tv plugged into the same power strip?
In my brief discussion with Jon Lang at Perpetual, after describing the problems I was having, he initially thought it may be my transport and asked me if I had another on hand. When I told Jon that I had the same exact symptoms with my other transport, he was thinking that my P-1A was doing something funny.When I talk to Jon again this week, I'm going to ask him if I can send both the P-1A and P-3A back for investigation. I don't expect to have any problems whatsoever.
By the way, I now have almost 300 hours on both units, and although I don't know what each unit is doing, they do sound quite good.
- Charlie
at least they stand behind it i guess. i really hate to have to send it back though after getting use to it and having to go back to my setup before. such is life i guess.
I was an early adopter of the P-1A (in fact mine has an early software glitch, the channels are swapped), and at the outset I really didn't like the sound on any of my newer, or more well recorded cd's. On old stuff it was great, but on new stuff the music just didn't sound right, I almost sent it back.However, after a couple of hundred hours on the unit, it seemed more coherent, smoother, and I decided I no longer liked the sound of my cd's without it in the circuit. In fact, I have an RA to send it back for the channel swap fix, but I can't seem to let go of it.
I don't own a P-3A, but if you take out a fairly well recorded older cd, perhaps a remastered '70's rock selection, and it doesn't sound better with the P-1A, then something must be wrong.
Just My op.
Since the p-3a already has a sample rate convertor, the sample rate converter(upsampling) in the p-1a is redundent. This can only degrade the audio, as any resampling algorithm will.steve
When I've set the P-1A to 96k, I've set the P-3A to I2s direct to bypass it's conversion. Otherwise, I output 24/44.1k.
Yes, either use the P-1A upsampling with no other upsampling or let the P-3A do the upsampling for best sound - I absolutely agree.Dan W.
What is the benifit of using both units together then?
The crystal cs4397 src in the p-3a converts 16 bit/44.1kHz to 24 bit 96kHz. The p-1a does the same thing, but I believe with a proprietary algorithm. I thought the only reason to use the p-1a was if you intend to use speaker/room correction.steve
I think it is only capable of upsampling to 96k. Thought in the P-1A, one chip upsamples, and the other DSP chip converts to 24 bit.
The reason to use them both is that they work in synergy together for the best impact. The P-3A upsamples to 96khz and uses dither to achieve the 24-bits. The P-1A does an excellent job of jitter reduction first of all, secondly, it extends the wordlenth to 24-bits using a proprietary algorithm that has been years and thousands of computer code in the writing. The result is a FAR superior means of producing 24-bit resolution.When used with the P-3A then, while the P-1A is also able to upsample to 96khz, it sounds best when the P-1A is set to output 24/44.1 and lets the P-3A do the final 96khz upsampling.
Both units I believe are also equipped with an I2S input and a future optional software upgrade to allow these units to be used with 24/192 date - e.g. DVD-A, SACD, etc...now all we need is a Universal Transport.
Now enter speaker correction. I have only heard the speaker correction and not the room correction yet, but the speaker correction completely blew me away. I will be writing a lengthy report of the fun I had at CES and what I liked there, but for now I will simply say that when Peter turned the speaker correction off and then back on again, it was like someone turned the lights on...it is THAT GOOD.
I hope this clears things up a bit and if I am mistaken about any of what I have said, I hope someone will correct me.
Dan W.
What would otherwise be the 24-bit dithering in the P-3A (via the Crystal chip) has been defeated, or bypassed, or whatever you want to call it, by the Perpetual designers.Therefore, you need the P-1A with this combo to get to the simulated 24 bit word length.
Also, to an earlier question about why you need both the 1-A and 3-A, don't forget that the 1A offers astoundingly good jitter reduction, the benefits of which are incontrovertable, and much discussed in this forum. Even if you don't utilize the resolution enhancement of the P-1A, you receive sonic benefits from the jitter reduction.
Best regards, Paul
The p-3a does use 24 bit when sample rate converting to 96k. Still doesn't make sense to use both devices unless speaker or room correction is used, IMO. Your comments about the development and performance of the p-1a also apply to the p-3a!steve
Steve,I think you're wrong here. Stand-alone, the P-3A will upsample to 96kHz, but merely adds dither to the 16-bit data to create a 24-bit signal. The P-1A can do that, but it also (and separately) can generate interpolated 24-bit signals, using DSPs and proprietary software not included in the P-3A DAC.
P-Tech and most reviewers, including Dan W here, suggest running the P-1A to do only this interpolation to 24-bits, outputting a 44.1 kHz 24-bit signal to the P-3A, which then upsamples that input to 96 kHz. It is also possible to have the P-1A do both , to output interpolated 24-bit signals to the P-3A at 96 kHz, which should then be set to not upsample, but all I've read indicates that it is better to have the P-1A increase the word length and the P-3A upsample.
So the P-1A brings something to the party in addition to jitter reduction (now) and speaker + room correction (future).
BTW, the review of three DACs in the current Secrets of High Fidelity and Home Theater describes using the P-1A in this manner to drive the Link and Bel Canto DAC-1.
cooney
The crystal sample rate convertor chip in the p-3a maintains 24 bit precision in its calculations while converting the sample rate tp 96kHz using interpolation.I believe some of the reviews I've read also misunderstand what's going on or at least how to explain it.
steve
I think you are still missing the point: . there is a difference in how the P-3A (as well as most other upsampling DACs) and the P-1A approach creating a 24-bit signal from 16-bit input.While, as you indicate, the Crystal sample rate converter chip in the P-3A "maintains 24 bit precision in its calculations," it does this by adding dither to the signal, which is different from creating a 24-bit signal by interpolation using DSP, which can be done by the P-1A but not by the P-3A. . Please note, I'm not saying better, just different, as I've not heard this yet. . (I note, however, that Dan Wright and most of the others posting here who have listened to both feel that the P-1A's interpolated signal is preferable; . some users, as indicated earlier in this thread, are not so sure.)
In the recent review of the P-1A/P-3A in SoundStage! , Doug Blackburn quotes one of the P-Tech founders as follows, which is one of the most concise explanations I've seen of this distinction:
"Peter Madnick clarifies the operation of the P-3A and other so-called 24/96 DACs and 24/96 outboard processors this way: . The P-3A does not interpolate 16-20-bit data to 24-bit data -- nor does any 24/96 DAC (e.g., the Bel Canto DAC1) or add-on 24/96 external device (e.g., Assemblage D2D-1). . All of these products, so far, will output 24-bit data via dithering of the 16-bit input data. . This results in data that has roughly 17 bits of equivalent resolution within a 24-bit datastream. . The P-3A and other 24/96 products do upsample, for example, from 44.1kHz to 96kHz if you select that mode. . People tend to assume that 24/96 products that advertise upsampling and/or interpolation actually convert 16/44.1 data to full 24/96 resolution, which is not accurate. . To actually get 24-bit data in a 24-bit datastream, you must use digital signal processing (DSP), which is included in the P-1A and is referred to as "Resolution Enhancement" in the P-1A's user manual."
Hope this helps explain the distinction between the two processes, adding 8 bits of dither versus interpolation of 24-bit data by software running on DSP chips.
cooney
Thanks for the notes cooney :)Usually when discussing sample rate conversion 'interpolation' refers to the extra samples created during upsampling. Precision is used to describe the 'resolution' of the samples after processing. How the value of the samples are calculated is the difference between the 2 PT units, and that is understood.
steve
Hi cooney,No, it only adds to the confusion because it's not quite accurate. The CS8420 does do interpolation, as all up/oversampling chips do - in fact interpolation is implicit in up/oversampling. I'd be amazed if the CS8420 didn't pass 24 bit data (without dither), as it takes more effort and expense to dither the signal rather than pass the expanded wordlength to the output. It just wouldn't make sense.
Here's what PT's own literature says on the subject:
"The CS8420 device actually has a 24-Bit data path to its
outputs, with some dithering options to reduce the
word length. We are not using the CS8420 device’s
dithering option, but instead use our own proprietary
“adaptive dithering algorithm” in the DSP. For a
44.1K sample CD source, the CS8420 device is
passing 24 bits, which essentially track the 16-Bit
source signal into its new output sample positions."So, in the P-1A the CS8420 is passing 24 bits, but they are not using it's dithering options.
What the P-1A does that no other DACs do is what PT call resolution enhancement. This isn't interpolation in the sense that the term is usually used in, it's a process of estimating the value of the original data using psycho-achoustic techniques. It may work very well, but can we call any value that is the result of "estimation" (PTs own term) True 24 bit data?
Note: plenty of DACs are running at 24 bits without a bit of dither in sight. Also, all up/oversampling chips are DSP chips.
Daniel Espley
Off topic, I think you are wasting your system especially the Merdian M20 by using the cables that you are using. At leat you need to use Kimber Silver Streak interconnect all round instead of the PBJ.When you get the I2S direct setting, 3 green lights should be on. 2 green lights means 96K but not I2S direct. What digital cable between transport and P1A you are using?
Yes, you need to wait for the units to break in.
Paul Lam
P.L.C.Lam Consulting Inc.
I understand what you are saying about the cables, but keep in mind that my source has been a 13 year old digital device. The crystal clarity of a great cable may have even had adverse effects. I'm sure with an upgrade to my source, it is warranted. I've seen a lot of positive reviews on Wireworld Polaris (none negative yet anyhow). I have had Transparent cables in my system during a demo, but I feel their lower end cables don't live up to their name. I'd take a free set of the Reference XLs though.I do have 3 green lights in I2s direct mode, but the second light toggles to orange and then back to green every few seconds. This happens with all transports. I am using a Cardas cable between transport and DAC.
-Scott
Hi Scott,I received the P-1A an P-3A a week ago Wednsday and have been running it continuously since then (over 250 hrs.) I don't have the Monolithic PS yet.
> >
Some info that may be related: I set the P-1A to 24/96k and set the P-3A to I2s direct. When I do this, program light on the P-3A toggles between green and orange. I thought it should be green only. Orange seems to flash every 4 seconds or so.
< <
The same thing happens with mine, but I don't get the flashing (it stays orange.) I have the same results if I set the P-1A to 24/44.1k. I was expecting the LED on the P-3A to turn red. It didn't.> >
More info. The manual states that the second light on the P-3A will indicate the input clock rate, but my light is always green, even if I set the P-1a to output at other rates. The only exception to this is in I2s direct mode. In this mode, I can see the corresponding LED color on the P-3A (with 96k having the strange orange flashing).
< <
Same thing, but without the flashing.I didn't see the diagnostic display that you mentioned.
I haven't had enough free time lately to determine if the P-1A is making a difference, but I briefly took the P-1A out of the loop to see if the LED's seemed right on the P-3A. I was expecting the P-3A to indicate 44.1k, but the LED was green instead of red. I hope to play around a bit more today.
I currently have the P-1A set to 24/96k and the P-3A to I2S-direct. Another odd thing is that when I hold the program button on the P-1A to select the output sampling rate, the LED on the right or bottom is red instead of green which is indicated in the manual. When I release this button to select the output bit rate, the LED is green as expected.
I have spent some time listening to a wide variety of stuff, but I don't know if the LED's are telling me what's realing going on. Anyways, here are some of my initial thoughts.
In general, I've noticed similar improvements. The improvements to the bass are especially noticeable; much more rich and tuneful. While I haven't noticed a substantial increase in soundstage size, the content of the stage seems better defined. The illusion of a real person playing a real instrument is more vivid. Like the interaction between the musician and mouth piece or musician and strings. The interaction between the variuous instuments and voices also seems significantly better to me. Crosby, Stills and Nash have never sounded more glorious. The play between Jerry Garcia and David Grisman on their acoustic disks is so intricate, subtle and in general, beautiful. The interplay between the violins and the oboes in some of Bach's concertos is stunning. In some reviews that I've read, people have mentioned a slight sibilance with female vocalists. I didn't experience any of this. The most important thing is that all of the stuff I've listened to so far is more involving. I'm tapping my toes more; I'm dancing more; I'm smiling more; I'm crying more. And for me, listening to music is about emotional involvement. This involvement could, of course, be some kind of placeabo thing or I just might be in more of a music listening mode right now. Time will tell.
I think these products have tremendous potential and I plan on giving Perpetual every chance to iron out the glitches. I spoke with Jon Lang from Perpetual briefly about the problems I was having and he seemed very eager to help. I decided to hold on to the P-1A and P-3A until after the CES. I'll call Jon again on Thursday and work things out.
Although I'm somewhat dissapointed that things aren't exactly perfect, I realize that this is a fairly new company working with complex new technology and offering products at reasonable prices.
I'll post further impressions as they arrive.
- Charlie
i also just got this combo and have about 80 hours on it. it sounds worlds better already then when i first got it. it's getting more musical every day i have the cdp on repeat. unfortunately my second led on the p-3a is also flashing green to orange in i2s direct mode. what i have found weird is i so far get the best sound making the p-1a upsample to 96/24. i haven't really tried the p-3a in direct mode for to long due ot the flashing led bugging me. as for the p-1a not increasing soundstage i find that a bit puzzling due to it to really increasing on me when it's on which isn't always a good thing depending on the recording. i also am using the monolithic power supply and some cardas golden hex 5c's for interconnects.
Looks like some of this is simply documentation errors.I have tried my combination with 24/44.1 with no I2s direct, and 24/96 with I2s direct. I think they recommend the former config. I don't know if that would be better because the 96k doesn't have to traverse the I2s cable or what.
The documentation really needs to be expanded greatly. There are so many options available. A doc specifically covering the P-1A and P-3A combination would be useful as well.
Back to the P-1A sound. I can say that with the P-1A set to 16/44.1 , which I believe should essentially leave the CD input alone other than reclocking, the sound I get isn't as nice as if I run the P-3A directly. That makes me think something is wrong with the P-3A or the $.50 I2s cable is an issue.
I think I'm pretty much sold on the P-3A and power supply. I'm just not getting blown away by the combo like so many others.
-Scott
Hi,Even when setting the P-1A to 16/44.1, the data at the output is asynchronous with that at the input, so some data will be truncated likely explaining the inferior sound.
Daniel Espley
I'm confident that what you're experiencing is a setup/config issue. From all that I've read about the P-1A it should make a significant improvement over the P-3A alone.Dan, any suggestions? (I think he's a CES)
I just got back from a brief but exciting trip to CES. I think we do have some confusion about configuring the pair. If there is a problem with the P-1A, Perp. Tech. WILL take care of it. They do offer excellent customer service...okay, after the CES at least :).> I just received my P-3A, P-1A, and Monolithic power supply on Friday > afternoon. I have listened to it with 3 different transports, and > run it through 2 different pre-amps. I have been playing music > through both units continuously since they arrived.
I would recommend 200-300 hours for both pieces to break in properly.> I connect the P-1A to the P-3A via the supplied I2s cable. This goes > out to either an Adcom GS-700 pre-amp (actually, this device has two > analog pass throughs with volume control, and 3 amps. a HT add on > thing), or back to the Meridian 207 line level inputs (yes, these > early Meridians were also full featured pre-amps, which made sense > since the speakers are active). The output here goes through 3 meter > Kimber PBJ interconnects to my Meridian M20 active speakers. I have > switched between 3 different interconnects including radio shack > gold, low grade Monster, and some cables my Dad got in the UK named > Shark (sp).
Well, I think you would benefit from better cables, although the Kimber PBJ's aren't bad. You ARE however subjecting the analog signal to an awful lot of preamps and other circuitry...I prefer a minimalist integrated amp or no preamp approach personally, but this is just a side comment.> I have tried every possible combination of output bit density, clock > rate, and "enhancement". Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to make > the output sound any better than the P-3A in a stand alone > configuration. I was thinking my pre-amp was the problem, but that > doesn't make sense because I can hear the difference between using > my DVD player, the Meridian 207, and a MicroMega CD player as > transports.
>
> Some info that may be related: I set the P-1A to 24/96k and set the > P-3A to I2s direct. When I do this, program light on the P-3A > toggles between green and orange. I thought it should be green only. > Orange seems to flash every 4 seconds or so.
Okay, which LED goes from green to orange. In I2S mode, the 3rd LED should be GREEN. The second LED should be GREEN or ORANGE.> More info. The manual states that the second light on the P-3A will > indicate the input clock rate, but my light is always green, even if > I set the P-1a to output at other rates. The only exception to this > is in I2s direct mode. In this mode, I can see the corresponding LED > color on the P-3A (with 96k having the strange orange flashing).
The second light will always be green UNLESS you are running it in I2S direct mode. The P-3A will ALWAYS upsample to 96khz unless it is in I2S direct mode. In I2S direct mode, it will not upsample and will rather display the clock frequency that it is receiving. If it is flashing from Orange to Green in I2S direct mode, then you will need to ask Perp. Tech. about this.> I think I stumbled into some type of diagnostic display on my P-1A. > If I hold the program button for a few seconds to get the "menu", > and then hold the input button down, I get a series of light > displays. I have no idea what this is, but I'm wondering if I could > have screwed something up in this menu???
Hmmmm...don't know about this and have never tried it. It IS very likely that it is a diagnostics menu and you may have changed some operating parameters unwittingly.> The P-3a is a definite improvement over my CD Player's built-in DAC. > The bass is much better defined, and the presentation is stronger. > It didn't open the soundstage much as I had hoped but:
>
> a. Not the world's best pre-amp/cables.
> b. Unit isn't fully broken in.
> c. Expected P-1A to make a difference.
It REALLY does need at least 200 hours to properly break in. The PBJ's are not the smoothest cables, although they do give good detail. I won't even address the Radio Shack cables :) and I don't have any experience with the Monster's or other cable that you mentioned. I also don't like the fact that you are running the analog signal through so much hardware, but that is just my personal preference speaking.> I regard myself as having pretty good ears for this stuff, but the P-> 1A just isn't doing much if anything. Every review I have read > states that the difference the P-1A makes is unmistakable and > substantial.
YES, if you aren't hearing anything different, then something is not right, very possibly a wrong configuration. When I put the P-1A demo in my system I was busy doing some other stuff and didn't take the time to notice any immediate improvements. It was also not properly broken in. I let it run for a few days, running with the P-3A and did notice that things sounded very sweet, but hadn't listened very closely. I then took the P-1A out and my heart skipped a beat. The P-3A still sounded just as good as it did before I demoed the P-1A, but I didn't realize HOW MUCH the P-1A was improving the sound. To my ears, the sound became richer, deeper and more full bodied - in a word, tangible. The sound went from great with the P-3A alone to AMAZING with the two combined.> Anyone have an idea? I will contact PT on Monday, but wondered if > anyone else here would have experience with this or tips. I will > post the resolution to this issue when/if I get it sorted out.
In conclusion, I believe that you either have it configured wrong or there is something else going on that Perpetual Technologies can address.My recommended way to hook the two up, BTW, is to set the P-1A to 24-bit - 44.1khz via coax or I2S WITHOUT I2S direct mode and let the P-3A do the upsampling to 96khz. This is the recommended arrangement I believe and the way that sounds best to me. Please try this arrangement and let us all know how it turns out.
> Also, what type of difference will I experience between the sound I > get now (30 hours break in) and what I will hear after 200 hours? > Subtle? Unmistak
OH! 30 hours is not nearly enough to make any judgements about either piece, PARTICULARLY the P-3A. It took the longest time to burn-in properly in my system. After 200 hours, the changes WILL NOT be subtle IMHO. You will hear the soundstage expand and things will greatly smooth out and warm up. I noticed an emphasis on sibilance before mine burned in, but after 200+ hours the music became smooth without any loss of detail or dynamics.I also heard the speaker correction demo at the CES. In a word - WOW!!! - It is not a subtle difference, it is HUGE! I am going to purchase the correction software and Diva speakers soon!
I hope I helped to ease some of the confusion here. I met Mark and his partners yesterday, in the flesh and I can honestly say that they are a class act. These guys are sharp, innovative and love what they are doing. Mark has quite a reputation as a heck of a nice guy and a great designer...I learned this first hand after talking with him at CES.
Take care,
Dan W.
<-ModWright->
I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post. It sounds like I was not clear when I explained my configuration. Once the signal leaves the P-3A, it goes directly to the pre, and then straight to the speakers. I was pointing out that I tried different transports and pre-amps.Cables... yup. I've obviously got to do something about that. I will say that my Dad's cables, which were apparently not cheap, didn't seem to make a substantial difference. The 3 meter pair running to my speakers could use a serious upgrade. I think the distance, coupled with the fact the the signal will hit a crossover in the speakers prior to hitting amps, makes this a critical link in my system.
Kinda OT: At one point a friendly dealer was kind enough to let me borrow a Levinson No. 39 CDP, and some Transparent cables. I used the pre-out of the CD player to go straight to my speakers. Thought it would be amazing... it wasn't. Everything was clearer, but it didn't sound any more musical than it had before. The dealer brought out a 380s preamp, and WOW WOW WOW. It was heaven. I didn't have the $15,000 for a No. 39 AND a 380s. So I let it rest. What I learned is that the preamp and cables to my Meridians are absolutely crucial.
Back to my current dillema. In I2s direct mode, with 24/96k output, the second light (the one that indicates sample rate input) blinks between green, and orange. My understanding is that it should be solid green in this configuration.
Typically, I have the P-1A set for 24 bit, 44.1k output. This would be the optimal config you described. This does make the P-3A mellow out a bit, but it doesn't sound like I gain any resolution from it. At this point I can say it is different, but not necessarily better. The "CD enhancement" never seems to make a real positive difference. On one CD it definitely made some bell sounds overbearing.
As far as sound goes... maybe I just need more burn in time, and perhaps a cable upgrade. If I bought the P-3A alone for $700, I don't think I would have been too demanding. But at $2k for the whole thing, that kinda requires the equipment to compete in a different league. I paid $1900 for the M20s, and $1000 for the CD player. Honestly, it sounds more musical than a lot of the 5 figure setups I've heard. It sounds somewhat better with the PT gear, but not by a significant margin. Some things stand out a bit more, but the window isn't really clearer if you know what I mean. Like I'm still looking through 3 panes of glass, instead of 2. To put it another way, the new sound doesn't move me emotionally any more than the old setup, which is the bottom line for me.
Again, thanks for the reply.
-Scott
If you are running in I2S direct mode. The second light should be solid green. That is 3 green all the time. I have never encounter any setting with orange light on. It is either 2 green indicating 96K or 3 green indicating I2S direct. The P3A manual has the programming indicator stated clearly.Paul Lam
P.L.C.Lam Consulting Inc.
I thought the second light was supposed to indicate INPUT sampling rate.When I'm in I2S direct mode, my second LED is solid orange indicating 48kHz and my third LED is green indicating I2S direct. If I take the P-3A out of I2S direct mode, the second LED is solid green indicating 96kHz. This LED is green independent of the selected output bitrate on the P-1A.
In addition, If I select and output sample rate of 44.1kHz on the P-1A, I do not get any sound at all.
At this point, I'm not really concerned. I'm confident that Perpetual will either figure out what I'm doing wrong or figure what else may be happening.
I'm excited about getting this stuff working, adding the monolithic PS, and moving on to my next experiment.
- Charlie
Have you tried to set the P1A output sampling to 96K and press and hold the program button on the P3A until all 3 lights are green?Paul Lam
P.L.C.Lam Consulting Inc.
Many times. Anytime I put the P-3A into I2S direct mode by holding the program button on the P-3A until the third LED turns green, the second LED ALWAYS turns orange and stays that way. This is the case no matter what output sampling rate I set the P-1A to deliver.- Charlie
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