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In Reply to: RE: Adjectives vs. Measurements posted by MarkJohns on January 30, 2016 at 13:14:04
How many SOTA systems have you heard ....
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Well let's see, I heard Ralph Glasgal's Ambiophonic system a couple of times. There has to be a million dollars worth of equipment tied up in it. It was very interesting in it's unique spacial effects but otherwise unconvincing. The monster Soundlabs electrostatic speakers were very clear but even with the help of a subwoofer was bass shy.
I heard a lot of equipment at the VTV show in Piscataway NJ about 8 years ago including Audio Note's TOTL equipment. I was underwhelmed and in met Peter Qvortrup. I didn't much like him. I surprised myself in being able to identify by listening alone what was probably the only solid state amplifier in the whole place that day. It reminded me why I switched to solid state in 1968 and never looked back. I heard a lot of other very expensive and unimpressive equipment there too that day.
When Harvey Radio was still in business not far from where I live in NJ I heard the best system they had, a pair of $10,000 Martin Logan Summit speakers powered by a Krell amplifier, a McIntosh preamp, and a McIntosh CD player. I thought it sounded awful. I listened to their recording of a piano and violin. There were five serious FR problems I counted and the bass was particularly disappointing. The treble sounded weird too although like most electrostatic speakers the overall sound was very clear. I don't listen to other people's equipment much anymore. I was going to hear a pair of Revel Salon Ultima 2s to find out what impressed JA so much but never got around to it. On the phone the guy who owned the store was ready to sell them to me for a mere $16,000 without quibbling, I think about a 5 or 6 thousand dollar discount. As high end speakers go these days, that's not a lot of money.
Audio shows are disasters really , best to find some serious Philes and go from there , apart from your first mention you have not really heard a SOTA setup , a true SOTA system has the full whammy , room, acoustics , electrical, software, front end, pre stage , amplfication and speakers.90% shown at shows are disasters really , hard to be impressed if exposed. If truly seeking top tier you can walk past point source speakers with the rare exeption (horns ). SP gave PS Audio BHK amp a good rating maybe Arnie might invite you over for a listen , he can be a thorny basturd , but who knows.
John (as well as the others) refuses to acknowledge the Gen1 's any more , I guess Gary Koh is not a member .. :)
Anyway I'm not in total disagreement with your assessments , But IMO you do need to experience a few SOTA setup before solving the problem .. :)
Edits: 01/30/16
Arnie Nudell and Paul McGowan live in Colorado a couple of thousand miles from me. I don't intend to make the trip.
I've looked at the design of the Gen 1.2. It's the latest iteration of the Infinity IRS concept. Paul McGowan acquired a pair of IRS series V which Arnie helped him restore. He even rebuilt his sound room for them and has a series of videos on YouTube that allows you to follow its progress. If I liked the Gen 1.2 I'd built my own version. The midrange looks to me exactly like the B&G RD75 line array ribbon which Arnie helped design. For tweeters I'd probably go with something like the Beston RT003C ribbons in a line array. I would not use the BHK/Nudell woofer design. BHK designed the servo system which I think is unnecessary. He published data for it. IMO believe it or not, I think the enclosure is too small, as large as it is. It achieves an open loop F3 of around 60 hz. I think I could do as well or better with some old restored AR 12" drivers. 6 per channel is overkill for even the largest room in my house, 12 per channel is ridiculous. I think I could build a pair for around $15K - $20K, maybe less. I'd use active crossovers and equalization, and multiple amps. Paul McGowan says his IRS sound best using two BHK amps, one per channel in a mono mode. The woofers also have their own dedicated servo amps in all of the IRS and Gen 1.1 and 1.2 speakers.
"But IMO you do need to experience a few SOTA setup before solving the problem "
What makes you think I haven't solved it already? What do I listen to? My own designs and no they will not be manufactured for sale. I build them exclusively for my own use.
Sounds like exclusive bespoke stuff , if only others were doing this ... :)
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