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I had to take note of the interesting dialogue (in the comments section at the bottom of the link below) between a reviewer from AS and a show Shower(Retailer). This is enlightening. Nearly every issue of AS or Stereophile the letters to the editor complain about high priced gear being overwhelmingly represented in the reviews. Here we have a $600k system retailer at a Show complaining that the reviewer may be deliberately avoiding their room. On one hand, I can appreciate the Retailer's (or maybe the manufacturer) frustration. On the other hand, it goes to show you how important the major magazines may be to a company's success. http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/ces-2016-speakers-20k-and-up/?utm_campaign=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=email-455
Follow Ups:
I don't think anyone is automatically entitled to press coverage on the basis of participating at a trade show. Also, coverage may not always be favorable.
Perhaps that explains the wish AS had visited ... couldn't have been worst. LOL
Edits: 01/19/16
I've been to CES a number of times in the past and, quite frankly, would not take most 30 minute reviewer assessments too seriously. No offense to anyone at Stereophile or any other publication. Just my personal opinion based on my own experience.
Thanks for your contribution and I do not entirely disagree.
But I view things a little differently.
If a room sounds fantastic to an experienced listener with a long enough track record that people have been able to compare the writer's writings to their own experience, I can easily go along with, the room sounded fantastic.
And I cut it off right there. The room as a room sounds fantastic, and someone who was not involved in setting up the room really can't divvy up the respective roles the source, the electronics, the cables, and the speakers played.
So, I think "Fantastic" is easy. And for me, it usually happens only once or twice per show.
The really hard thing is trying to separate out unfortunate room effects from whatever the equipment is doing. And so when a reviewer says, this room sounded like Adele was singing into a box of Kleenex, that may reflect what he heard but it certainly is not the last word on any piece of equipment in that system.
The prototype of my S/PDIF cable was the smallest part of Grace Design's RMAF room. I did not attend, but, a couple of real veteran journalists (and one poster on AA) said it was one of the better-sounding rooms at the Show. But even taking that at face value, there was a bit of slight of hand involved! The system was built along the lines of, "First, Do No Harm" and "Bite Off Less, Chew More Carefully." The Luxman tube amp might have seemed a strange choice, but, better to err in the direction of listenability, especially when the first row of seats is so close.
I attach a photo (By JVS, courtesy of Stereophile) because it was a really cool setup, especially the ritzy acoustical panels from Delta H Design, which are intended to go right up against the back of the speakers. In an ideal world, the speakers would have been flush against the wall behind, but obviously impossible there.
The point being, the system as a whole reportedly from many sources sounded very musical, but I think that really is all anyone could say. And if you were setting up in a totally different room, different speakers and electronics might have been necessary to get the same subjective sonic impressions.
ATB,
JM
You just like to hear yourself talk :-) I agree with most of what you have written.
Best system I ever heard at CES? Ayre by a landslide. Their system was absolute magic that year. Might have been partially due to the large room they were in. Wish I could find the photos I took.
Worst was a pair of horns that were crammed into a cubby hole of a room. I couldn't get out of there fast enough. If liver had a sound, that would be it.
So rather than best sound at the show, perhaps the room should get most of the credit?
Just curious.
Including CES and all other audio shows, back when high-end audio was in the Sahara Bi-Level, Shahinian Diapasons were both holographic and impactful (it's usually one or the other).
ESP Concert Grands on at least three occasions were startlingly real. Elliott Kallen brought a ref CDR of his free-jazz group, and it was a real body-hair-raising experience.
The biggest MBLs in NYC, circa 2008? On one of my own pipe-organ recordings. Remarkable. JA was there.
Medium-sized TAD speakers playing Eric Whitacre's "When David Heard."
In answer to your last question, I look at it as, the room sure can hurt you but the best it can do is not to hurt you. I don't don't think that hotel rooms are likely to help.
Whereas here is a photo of Arturo Delmoni in a room that seemed to help--the formal dining room of a mansion in Newport RI. 15-foot ceilings, the room was 33 feet wide and 66 feet long. The Aerial 20Ts were playing a Music Minus One organ track and Arturo Delmoni was playing the Chaconne attributed to Vitali live. Ballsiest performance I have ever witnessed. JA, ST, MF, AD, and KR were there.
Behind Delmoni is a Plinius SA-250 that was getting a real workout. Stereovox cables. 24/96 original recording.
ATB,
JM
The Avalon Eidolon, of course. An incredibly engaging system. That's what does it for me.
I'm hoping to hit a few more shows this year with perhaps a different perspective rather than just a laundry list of gear. We'll have to see. The old guard never welcomes change.
Sue
One of my favorite 'best sounding rooms' at a CES?Who'd o' thunk it?
Acoustic Sounds had a demo room at CES in about 2004? spinning one sided DEMO disks on a TNT HRX with amps I never cared much for, Halcro dm58 driving Avalon Eidolon Vision speakers.
Went to a lot of shows back in those days, about every CES from 2000 through 2007. Still going to RMAF every year.
Heard a lot of rooms.
Edits: 01/22/16
Yup, I went to a lot of shows back in those days as well. Even a few in Chicago when there was a summer CES. The Ayre system I was so fond of was back in 2003. That was a fun year as I had no writing assignment and decided to visit rooms that were off the beaten path so to speak. Met a lot of nice people who rarely, if ever, get any mention in the press. The photos are all buried in an old computer that I've not used in years. I should dig those up, especially the "hideous horns". Nice people, but the ugliest speakers I've even seen.Hope to see you at RMAF.
Edits: 01/21/16
Careful now, I'm a 'horn' guy so likely you're talking about friends of mine.
Actually, at last years RMAF my favorite room was Dave Slagle's bi-amped modified QUAD 57's.
it wouldn't be too much of a hassle or require much effort for a reviewer
(or whatever that writer's official title may be) to carry one, maybe two LPs
and/or a couple CDs with them and ask the system attendant to play a song
(or snippet thereof) from something they are familiar with to hear if said system
does it "right", "wrong" or "other".
Mind you, it is certainly the purveyors responsibility to choose the correct
media and music to showcase their system in its best light, but having
an alternative, taking the time, putting a bit of effort into hearing something
you're familiar with on a system you may actually have an interest in seems
like a practical idea.
Unless of course you're in a hurry to get to the next room because there's SO
MUCH TO COVER and SO LITTLE TIME!
Then again, coverage should NOT always be favorable, no matter how
frequently (and unsurprisingly) it is.
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
"Does everyone really think that we can learn everything from a "soft female vocal with piano, bass, and drums"?"
Yeah, you can learn that the folks in charge of the room are not prepared to show off their system playing "complex music that plumbs dynamic and range extremes".
CES is pretty massive - it's very hard to cover every single room and certainly even more difficult to cover every single room with enough time to be truly credible in one's coverage of the room (which requires around 30 minutes to be able to listen to enough different music - as well as getting the previous room out of your head).Further, I would not put too much stock in flyby assessments at an audio show - some of the rooms I didn't much care for at shows have been rather excellent in different situations. Indeed, some gear at one show I would have ranked bottom 5 - at a different show I scored top 5.
I understand manufacturer complaints - they pay rather big money for these rooms so they probably want some sort of return on the investment. But the idea of these shows is to attract "dealers" to want to carry your wares. If you want a review - ring up the magazines and ask to have your stuff reviewed.
There are lots of us reviewers out there at lots of magazines and I should think that sort of thing will be more lasting than a show report where gee the reviewer seems to like everything anyway.
Edits: 01/17/16
I'm not one to usually defend Jonathan Valin, but his response doesn't seem to support that theory:
"While I can fully appreciate your anger and frustration about having been overlooked by me two years running, I assure you, Perfect, and all other conspiracy theorists out there that it was completely (and unfortunately) accidental. At no point at the start of or during the last two CESes did I say to myself: "I'm gonna skip the Kondo/Kaiser room."
That said, I'm truly sorry for having missed you--twice. If you and/or Kaiser are showing at the MOC, I will make up for the oversight in Munich. "
I would ignore any system that cost more than my house
Not that every high buck system is necessarily worth it, but I love hearing what a truly great audio system can do! Don't you enjoy laughing out loud hearing stuff in your recordings you've never heard before?
I've enjoyed many an hour hearing different systems over the years at Sea Cliff which fell into the same ballpark. My point of reference was recalibrated there a couple of times.
Having said that, I am perfectly content to return to reality with my own systems and continue to enjoy music. I listen daily and end up spending more time listening to the garage system or the in home system using ceiling speakers. I recently replaced the ones in the office where I'm now typing and listening to Dave Brubeck with these 8" GRS full rangers from Parts Express driven by an Emotiva mini-X a-100 amp!
I have had success in the past using polyurethane on paper cones to stiffen them. It may also prolong their life for outdoor use.
Thanks for the tip.
Access to live music is it for me. Grans piano across the room and 16 minutes to tanglewood.
but I think there's definitely value in being able to hear an audio system that can play anything in an extraordinary way.
My musical tastes certainly include classical, but are not limited to it. And I really like to hear what I want to hear when I want to hear it!
BTW, I enjoy wifey playing her baby grand in the living room. It's nice to have a ready reference and a willing performer. :)
Hearing things you've never heard before, indeed!
Not that I haven't spent more than a few hours listening to full rangers in open baffles.
While it was not exactly Harry's normal fare, I clearly remember the first time I played Madonna's Frozen album on his Nola based wundersystem at the time.
Walls disappeared. Rhythms deep in the mix were laid bare for the first time and everything just "made sense" in the soundfield. Yeah, gimme more of that! :)
The GRS speakers ran the princely sum of $14 each including whizzer cones! I replaced the pair on the deck by the pool recently as well. Last night, I was outside enjoying the firepit listening to some Harold Budd and The Who while enjoying a cigar and viewing Orion.
was Goodmans of England 201's in JE Labs open baffles, wizzer cones and all. OK, EV-T35B's capped in for a bit of top end.
Lived to tell the tale.
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