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In Reply to: RE: That one is interesting, do you have an example? posted by Ralph on November 13, 2015 at 10:40:24
...the Benchmark AHB2 as reviewed in Nov 2015 issue of Stereophile. You can read the review for yourself for details but THD+noise was almost beyond capabilities of test equipment. It also got a very good subjective review by Kalman Rubinson. Other reviews have resulted in similar assessments. All this with a tracking switchmode power supply no less. I haven't heard it personally but have no reason to doubt reviews at this point.
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for more that 10 minutes without begging for a gun with which to shoot myself to end it all.
OK, it's an amplifier, not a DAC.
Never mind.
A friend of mine borrowed one some years ago...we had a similar negative impression. My inexpensive (but very good) Monarchy M24 DAC wiped the floor with it.
it's an amplifier with THX technology inside
Others, like Henry Wolcott have used a feed forward approach before and gotten similarly *wonderful* metrics. As have those using multi-rail power supplies.
It also got a very good subjective review by Kalman Rubinson.
"... but through a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 8 speakers, the sound was somewhat hard and thin. "
Yeah, give me more of that!
From the same review:
"Just because I found Benchmark Media Systems AHB2 not to be absolutely perfect under all conditions - after all, what is? - Doesn't mean that I want to represent it as anything less than a marvelous sounding amplifier. The AHB2 was capable of drawing more music from my B&W 800 Diamonds than I'd anticipated and mostly sounded better than the other amplifiers I've used to drive those speakers." .
Yeah, give me more of that!
I think "we" have a tendency to cherry pick data points out of context to support a personal POV.
I think "we" have a tendency to cherry pick data points out of context to support a personal POV.
Perhaps. I would never buy an amplifier, however, that sounds thin and bright - at any time.
Don't know quite where to go with that one so I'll pass. ;-)
Ah, so you haven't heard it yet and you put it forward as a good measuring and good sounding amp?? So what if KR liked it?
Are you saying KR's opinion is irrelevant or is it that the opinions of audio reviewers in general are irrelevant? Thin ice ahead!
BTW, he's not alone in his opinion as you must already know.
I am saying that you are putting forward this amp as a good sound/measuring amp and you haven't personally heard it. On top of that, KR found that the amp wasn't good in all situations (the Monitor Audio RS8 is not that hard of a speaker to drive). And on top of that, what KR uses for reference gear and tends to like is, IMO, rather unmusical and rather "hifi" ish gear.
I would like to know what someone like Martin Colloms or Art Dudley, or even Michael Fremer think of it before i would give it a second thought.
...You pretty much state that I err in putting forward an amp I haven't heard. However....by this reasoning isn't it also erroneous to dismiss the amp as you've done assuming you haven't heard it either? Seems I also have to conclude that you consider the opinions of reviewers irrelevant in general.
Curiously, you previously dismissed KR's opinion ("So what if KR liked it"), then you cite a portion of his review out of context in support of your personal point of view regarding the amp you haven't heard. You finish by stabbing KR thru his audiophile heart by describing his tastes in gear as "rather unmusical and rather "hifi" ish". The horror! This is all kinda inconsistent dontcha think? It also strikes me as cherry picking for best effect.
Even more curiously you state that you'd want Art Dudley's (or even Michael Fremer's - EVEN? yoiks!) opinion of the amp before giving it a second thought. I'll admit that I really like AD's style and outlook -followed him since the "Listener" days. However.......you must surely know that one of his reference speakers is a pair of Altec Valencias - possibly modified in undocumented ways. Have you ever heard these things? I have: I too am the proud owner of a pair of them. While dynamic and sometimes engaging, esp w/tubes, they're also colored with a "prominent" (shouty) midrange and rapid roll off above ~10-12KHz. IOW, "fun but fake". I don't begrudge AD for liking them but I also don't consider them reference quality, esp as a tool of the professional reviewer. If you can criticize KR for his "hifi" ish tastes in equipment..........
"by this reasoning isn't it also erroneous to dismiss the amp as you've done assuming you haven't heard it either?"
Except that it is a fundamentally wrong design from a psychoacoustic POV. Not to mention I have heard their other big product, the DAC, and it was frankly crap sounding. Given their design priorities and the methods they use to achieve them I can pretty safely conclude this amp breaks no new ground sonically.
"Seems I also have to conclude that you consider the opinions of reviewers irrelevant in general."
Where are you taking this from? Did I not state that there ARE reviewers whose opinion I value? Yes I did.
"This is all kinda inconsistent dontcha think? It also strikes me as cherry picking for best effect. "
How so? I said that I don't value his opinion and I explain that is largely two things A) He raves about gear that I have heard and find unmusical and not worth buying and B) His reference gear is largely made up of similar items, IMO. Nothing inconsistent with that and my dismissal of his Benchmark review.
"then you cite a portion of his review out of context in support of your personal point of view regarding the amp you haven't heard."
Where did I quote him at all? Perhaps you have me confused with someone else?
"I'll admit that I really like AD's style and outlook -followed him since the "Listener" days. However.......you must surely know that one of his reference speakers is a pair of Altec Valencias - possibly modified in undocumented ways. Have you ever heard these things? I have: I too am the proud owner of a pair of them. While dynamic and sometimes engaging, esp w/tubes, they're also colored with a "prominent" (shouty) midrange and rapid roll off above ~10-12KHz. IOW, "fun but fake". I don't begrudge AD for liking them but I also don't consider them reference quality, esp as a tool of the professional reviewer."
I said I value his opinion, not that I am a fan boy or want to duplicate his system. I have heard old JBLs and Altecs and some are amazing and some are as you describe. I haven't heard the Valencias. What you describe though doesn't surprise me. My Odeons sound completely modern in tonal balance and lack of coloration but have the fun and dynamics of one of these older horn systems.
You sure seem to reading a lot of your own interpretations into what I am posting rather than sticking with the facts about what I am writing...strange.
There have been tremendous improvements in SMPS units in the last 20-25 years so I don't discount a product that might use them.
However the specs look a little too good to be true and some of the claims on the website are pushing the envelope a bit; bottom line is we'll have to see on that one. I will look for it at upcoming shows.
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