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In Reply to: RE: surrogates posted by fstein on November 11, 2015 at 14:49:01
of a genu-ine THD chart produced by Dave O'Brien himself validating the "low" distortion of my AR integrated amp back in '73.
What a piece of crap sonically.
Follow Ups:
I was repairing them right out of high school in 1974. They were old even then. The AR amp employed an interstage coupling transformer not unlike the Eico integrated amp of the same era... I make these amps to be late 1960s at the very least.
Certainly they have a reputation of being unstable as well as the sonic attributes (or lack thereof) you've outlined elsewhere on this thread. But they measured well...
I have vivid memories of my first "real" stereo. Forget the Electrophonic T100 receiver with 8 track player!
I purchased mine brand new in 1972 along with a pair of original Advents and a Lenco L75 turntable.
Click here for a page from their 1971 catalog.
Dated design for sure!
The Advents and the Lenco have held up fairly well in that time.
I had a friend that ran stacked Advents run be a set of Dyna MkIIIs. Somehow the stacked Advents seemed to do things that the individual speaker didn't. More bass impact and better soundstage as I recall. Boy that was a long time ago...
Two years later, I added Microstatic tweeters and added a second pair powered by a Citation 11/Crown D-150 amplifier. I had upgraded the table to a Technics SL110A with a SME 3009 Type II Improved (of course) arm and Ortofon M15 cartridge.
Up until recently, I was running (different pairs) double New Advents in the garage system albeit driven now by ARC SP9MKIII/Threshold Stasis 3. About ten years ago, Harry Pearson visited me on one of his Atlanta trips and heard them. He thought they still sounded good, but wondered how the drivers might fare in a modern cabinet mounted flush.
Today, I still run a single pair of New Advents in the garage powered by a NAD integrated. :)
They remind me of My KLH model 17's from the same era, same size and look ....
Go Rossi ......
Edits: 11/12/15
Same father, just separated by 15 years of refinement. Henry produced some truly memorable products.
I updated the crossovers using a mix of film and electrolytics (wanted to keep a similar ESR) and added felt damping around the tweeters and cut the stupid metal grill.
Yes eerily similar , the 17's had a better woofer and it looks like a similar or quite possibly the same tweeter. I found a mint pr on Ebay last month was thinking hard at getting it, freshen up the xover and actually measure the raw drivers for data, not sure if i would re design it as my intended final destination was daughter 2 , her first system away from cans, well until after college. :)
Go Rossi ......
Edits: 11/12/15 11/12/15
the 17's had a better woofer and it looks like a similar or quite possibly the same tweeter.
Not sure what you mean by "better woofer" since the KLH never produced equivalent first octave response.
Similarly, the ferro-fluid cooled dome tweeter in the New Advent had much higher power handling and far better dispersion than the cone tweeter of the '62 model.
I'm basing the "better" woofer on the type of pulp used, admittedly "conjecture" on my part.
regards
Go Rossi ......
Whatever.
longer than I thought.
If I recall right the amp was introduced about 1968, but the first ads I saw for it were in 1970.
which appears to be about '67 - but when I purchased it new.
I can assure you that Acoustic Research was still selling it in 1972. You'll find many references to version differences like "A03" or "A07".
-1967 sounds about right.
I remember seeing an ad where the amp was used in a medical theatre to reproduce the low frequency sounds of a heartbeat.
AR integrated. Beautiful to look at. Sound totally "1960s transistor". I didn't learn. I also owned a Crown IC 150 and its companion D150. Op amp inputs. Sound? Hard as nails but vanishing low measured distortion.
Edits: 11/12/15 11/12/15
At age 15, I was young and stupid and believed Julian Hirsch and the value of "low THD" and like you thought the AR amp was beautiful. I liked the simple design and the nubby black finish on the top and sides. It sounded fine playing Advents at high levels, but resolution disappeared at low levels. That was an important learning experience for me as I assumed that high levels provided a more challenging situation.
At 17, I wanted to upgrade and read great press about the Crown gear. Fortunately, the dealer (who I later worked for) was quite honest and talked me out of buying the ICK preamp. I did spring for the D-150 because of its higher power and rack handles vs. a Citation 12, but paired it with the much better sounding Citation 11 preamp. Like you said, the ICK was dreadful with its first generation Fairchild op amps, but had absolutely wonderful performance metrics. Quoting from the manual:
Distortion - "essentially unmeasurable; IM: less than 0.01% at rated output with IHF measurement (typically under 0.002%)
As you observed, its top end was hard as nails. The funniest story was from another inmate who happened to be a Crown dealer. Apparently, you had to show the entire line and couldn't cherry pick which components you wanted to sell.
...they would be fired...
There was another funny review by a guy in Minnesota who rebuilt his. Pics and text can be found here . He found the same problem as the rest of us:
"Those who remember the sound of the original (like having your teeth drilled without anesthetic!) would not recognize this modified incarnation. It makes real music! "
And yet, you find people today as deaf as Julian Hirsch. While googling for the manual, I found a *review* by a guy named Ken Rockwell. I love the opening paragraph found here :
"The Crown IC 150 was a state-of-the-art preamplifier when it came out in 1971. It offered an unheard of level transparency due to its ultra-low noise levels. "
Well, I would agree that its transparency was truly "unheard" because it didn't exist! :)
As
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