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In Reply to: RE: Total fiction being represented as an audio review. posted by Tony Lauck on July 26, 2015 at 10:48:05
"Without any technical knowledge, any reasonable experimenter would have simplified the problem network down to the fewest number of boxes and cables needed for a test and disconnected everything else. Most hobbyists would also have multiple cables and boxes and would be able to swap supposedly equivalent boxes to further narrow in on the problems. Finally, it would take just a little technical knowledge to know that Ethernet controllers detect errors, that drivers count these errors and that there is operating system software that will display these counters. Similarly for routers."
Hi Tony,
Thanks for your post. I did not quote it in totality but the first half and the scenarios you set forth are all possible and he could've had some bad connection which were corrected when he just happened to hook up the Audioquest cables. And of course I could also be the Queen of England. :-)
I believe we could go past this as the gentleman lists himself as an IT professional and a former employee of CISCO SYSTEMS! I would hope that this would bring with it a modicum of network knowledge. Having worked with and deployed a ton of network devices I really have to chuckle, at an IT Pro living with a broken network and doing nothing to fix it until the expensive cables arrive.
He also mentions previous employment with the Absolute Sound, and looking at the other recent thread in this forum regarding said publication brought back fond memories. The Absolute Sound from that era was truly enjoyable and in my opinion very honest in what they did, nobody has done it better since. I don't think he carries forth the same values of that venerable publication.
Regards
Bob
Follow Ups:
"He also mentions previous employment with the Absolute Sound, and looking at the other recent thread in this forum regarding said publication brought back fond memories. The Absolute Sound from that era was truly enjoyable and in my opinion very honest in what they did, nobody has done it better since. I don't think he carries forth the same values of that venerable publication. "
This is incredible. You guys really do love taking an article and then trying to tear it apart.
This is why we can't have nice things.
============================
As audiophiles, we take what's obsolete, make it beautiful, and keep it forever.
Hey! I have a blog now: http://mancave-stereo.blogspot.com or "like" us at https://www.facebook.com/mancave.stereo
"I believe we could go past this as the gentleman lists himself as an IT professional and a former employee of CISCO SYSTEMS! I would hope that this would bring with it a modicum of network knowledge. Having worked with and deployed a ton of network devices I really have to chuckle, at an IT Pro living with a broken network and doing nothing to fix it until the expensive cables arrive. "
It doesn't strain credulity. It really depends upon your "honey do" list.
I think the saying would go "The kids of the cobbler have the worst shoes in town."
While I am not going to defend someone whose network had dropouts that they wer ein a position to burn time to fix, I do think this is a little unfair. Especially since putting in fancy cables gave him an improvement on his network throughput doesn't refute that basic point.
============================
As audiophiles, we take what's obsolete, make it beautiful, and keep it forever.
Hey! I have a blog now: http://mancave-stereo.blogspot.com or "like" us at https://www.facebook.com/mancave.stereo
To be fair nobody was insulting you, so please do not read something into my comments that were not intended. When discussing things it is nice to have at lease a little something factual to base one opinion on. If you are of the opinion that this was a reasonable assessment of the products... fine.
I would bet that even if you spoke to someone at AQ they might think it a bit strange that one length of their cables can fix a broken network.
... you can have an entire network slowdown with a slow link depending upon what sort of connection you have (sometimes a "switch" isn't a switch at all but something that broadcasts all the data on all lines - I will call that a "hub" for brevity, and something that does actual traffic routing through switching a "switch"). Sometimes they slow down just that link, sometimes they slow down all links.It is not inconceivable, actually, if you had a connection that would slow down all traffic through it (as some do). Having a slow device or cable on a hub would do it. If it was a cable that was billed as "Cat-6" or "Cat-7" but in reality was Cat-3 or 5 effectively, replacing it with something with more capacity (a real Cat-6a for instance) would speed up everything. But that could also be alleviated by buying a true switch, and if the device on the end of the offending is slow, for sure you'd need a true switch.
This doesn't show that the replacement cable would be magic or anything, but how a replacement of a single cable could possibly help the whole network, even if it might not be the optimal solution.
============================
As audiophiles, we take what's obsolete, make it beautiful, and keep it forever.
Hey! I have a blog now: http://mancave-stereo.blogspot.com or "like" us at https://www.facebook.com/mancave.stereo
Edits: 08/04/15
There can be an endless array of possibilities that may cause packet loss or other network errors. Switches, hubs, connections, network cards etc. can all cause errors send bad packets, cause retries, blasts the network, anything is possible.
In his article there is no description or mention of the network and its configuration. He may have one cable, two cables, 300 cables. How many switches, routers, etc. Do you know? There was one picture of his Apple router with some cables plugged it that's it.
If you want to see an honest article look at Michael's Audiostream article and how he explained what he was using and how they were connected and his resulting opinions. There is a big difference and it is pretty evident.
Regards
You asked if it was even possible. I indicated a (pretty common) source of network slowdown that a new cable could improve things not directly hooked up to it.
As far as I am concerned I answered your question.
At this point, due to the dead, bloody horse being beaten, I have no more comments about the various articles.
============================
As audiophiles, we take what's obsolete, make it beautiful, and keep it forever.
Hey! I have a blog now: http://mancave-stereo.blogspot.com or "like" us at https://www.facebook.com/mancave.stereo
I do not believed I ask you that question. :) But ok... I can give you a thousand more scenarios. Sadly they do not apply here...
Regards
Serves me right for responding on a mobile device ...
As a side note, this has inspired me to do a few measurements of throughput and latency and order a few verified Cat-6a cables (shielded) recommended by our IT group, and updating my switches to see if I can get faster throughput. Though no real complaints thus far, but a number of places I noticed a weakness, and honestly, it isn't that expensive to have a simple home network that is blindingly fast.
Given a single AQ Cinnamon 1.5m cable was more than what ALL of my other cables cost (and these are made with Belden cable and measured when built), that particular "try out" will have to wait.
I'll let everyone know what that does for streaming, if anything.
Right now I reeling a little bit with finding a Furman power filter (I think it retails for $80 or so ... but it's about 5 years old and found it in a box I thought lost in a move) and putting it on the auxiliary stuff in my righ (all the digital stuff, networking stuff, and the turntable motor ... and ... the sound cleaned up a little. Wonder how much digital trash was getting where it shouldn't have got? I hate this sometimes! ;-)
============================
As audiophiles, we take what's obsolete, make it beautiful, and keep it forever.
Hey! I have a blog now: http://mancave-stereo.blogspot.com or "like" us at https://www.facebook.com/mancave.stereo
""Wonder how much digital trash was getting where it shouldn't have got?""
Possibly a great deal.
IMO network filters or trying fiber are important, and seemed to be ignored by many.
Filtering,. RFI/EMI, Room Acoustics are like a trifecta of "boring" compared to a new component.
I have had my biggest improvements - bigger than a compnent swap (though I don't swap lots) from these "boring" things, so I agree with you.
============================
As audiophiles, we take what's obsolete, make it beautiful, and keep it forever.
Hey! I have a blog now: http://mancave-stereo.blogspot.com or "like" us at https://www.facebook.com/mancave.stereo
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