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In Reply to: RE: Tom, we miss you! Start a little blog somewhere......... posted by viridian on May 11, 2015 at 19:42:41
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Follow Ups:
Please include me in the "we" except I'm hoping Tom takes over Stereophile someday. I know from personal experience that JA isn't a particularly nice guy.
> I know from personal experience that JA isn't a particularly nice guy.
I must be missing something but I don't think we've ever met. What did I do?
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
I was referring to a private email exchange that occurred a few years after I joined TAS. You felt the need to let me know that I wasn't Sterephile worthy and never would be. You called me a B-list writer and said that included everyone else at TAS save for Harley and HP.
The whole episode was precipitated by a comment I made about no female writers at Stereophile. There was a thread going on at the time about Stereophile writers all being middle-aged and balding - or something to that effect. My comment was friendly in nature, or so I thought. I never expected such a rude response from the editor of the magazine.
Turns out Harley wasn't such a nice guy either. The weasel comment was intended for him. I actually did give him a chance to part ways on good terms. He didn't have the stones to be honest.
And now back to having fun.
Sue
> I was referring to a private email exchange that occurred a few years after I joined TAS. You
> felt the need to let me know that I wasn't Sterephile worthy and never would be. You called
> me a B-list writer and said that included everyone else at TAS save for Harley and HP.
I must admit that doesn't sound like me but if it was, I apologize. Can you remember the year
So I can search my email archive? If I find my email I'll post it to this site.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
This is the post that you thought was a pot shot at Stereophile and initiated the private email exchange from you. There should be a total of 5 or 6 emails. I ended up apologizing to end the exchange based on the advice of Robert Harley.
> This is the post that you thought was a pot shot at Stereophile and
> initiated the private email exchange from you.
Thanks Sue. I'll search my email archive from this period when I get home
from my road trip.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
> Thanks Sue. I'll search my email archive from this period when I get home
> from my road trip.
Okay, I have found my emails but not Sue's. But as I quoted large chunks
of Sue's emails, the meanings will be clear. Let me make it clear, this was
private correspondence and I wouldn't normally make it public. But as Sue
raised the matter, I can't really respond without posting these emails. So
let the chips fall where they may:
--------------------------------------------
From: Atkinson, John
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 5:08 PM
To: 'Sue Kraft'; 'John Marks'
Subject: RE: New Audio Asylum Post: General Asylum
> TAS is only published bi-monthly, and up until last December when
Valerie passed away, they managed to find room for two women. <
With respect Sue, would you rather have women published in a
magazine because they are women first and writers/critics
second -- which is the case with TAS -- or because they are
writers and critics who incidentally happen to be women?
I will hire anyone for Stereophile who can give me what I, as
an editor need, which is something to say and the ability to
say it. To my regret I have not yet encountered a woman who can
do that who was able to join my team.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
From: Atkinson, John
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:32 AM
To: 'Sue Kraft'
Cc: 'John Marks'
Subject: RE: New Audio Asylum Post: General Asylum
> Thanks, John [Marks]. You're a real gentleman. Wish I could say
the same for your boss. <
Hi Sue, perhaps I was a bit blunt yesterday, but I hardly see why
you feel you have to demean me.
I deal with writers on a daily basis; I also read just about
every review of an audio component that is published in the
English-speaking world. I assess not only Stereophile's writers
but every one I read on their ability not only to write but to
think. I am constantly on the lookout for new blood. But I have
no intention of relaxing my editorial standards by hiring a woman
simply because she is a woman. To me that demeans both editor and
writer.
I read your stuff, I used to read Valerie's stuff. Both of you
are/were good, journeyman writers who comfortably fit within TAS's
editorial mission. But unfortunately, I don't/didn't see that spark
I crave, that would have me on the phone to you to try to replace
one of my existing writing team.
Does my saying this make me "not a gentleman"? You are free to
think so, of course, but I believe that being honest with people
and refraining from patronizing them shows more respect. -- John
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
To: "Sue Kraft"
CC: John Marks
From: John Atkinson
Date: 5/7/2004, 7:31 PM
Re: Re: New Audio Asylum Post: General Asylum
Message text written by "Sue Kraft"
> You mean to tell me I've been waiting by the phone all these years
for nothing? Thanks so much for your honesty in telling me you won't
be calling. Now I can finally get on with my life. I guess I was
wrong - you really are a gentleman after all. <
I am sorry Sue, I fail to understand the anger you direct at me, or
why you would want deliberately to antagonize the editor of the most
widely read audio magazine in the English-speaking world. I have
been no less honest with you than I am with any of my writing team.
You do a good job at TAS but the reality is that with the current
exception of Harry Pearson, Jonathan Valin, and Robert Harley, that
magazine [in 2004], on the hardware writer side at least, is a Triple-A
outfit. Doesn't mean that a writer can't learn her craft at TAS, but
please don't confuse that magazine with something that's ready to
hit in the major leagues. -- John
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
To: Sue Kraft
From: John Atkinson
Date: 5/9/2004, 10:28 AM
Re: Re: New Audio Asylum Post: General Asylum
Message text written by Sue Kraft
> I'm not angry, just baffled as to why you feel the need to keep
telling me I'm not good enough for Stereophile. Are you trying to
help me out? <
Sue, you took a potshot at a competing magazine on a public forum. I
paid you the respect of explaining to you in person, not in public,
why your potshot was, in my opinion, poorly aimed.
> How am I suppose to respond? I'm happy writing for TAS, and I'm
sorry if that offends you. <
It doesn't offend me at all. This isn't about you, Sue. You complain
that, unlike TAS, Stereophile doesn't employ a woman reviewer. All
I am doing is explain[ing] that when a woman appears on the scene whose
talent and experience would justify my firing one of the current
team, I would hire that person. That is all. -- John
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
To: Sue Kraft
From: John Atkinson
Date: 5/9/2004, 4:25 PM
Re: Re: New Audio Asylum Post: General Asylum
Message text written by Sue Kraft
> I apologize if you took my comment over at AA as a potshot against
Stereophile. It really wasn't intended to be. <
Apology accepted Sue. I think that those of us whose bylines are
published should be circumspect about criticizing each other in
public, is all.
> There's probably a few other female reviewers out there that, if it
were up to me, I wouldn't hire. But I could easily make that same
comment about a few of the guys. In other words, your point is well
taken that writers should be hired based upon ability and talent
rather than gender. <
Glad we agree. As I said, I think you're doing good work at TAS.
-- John
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
So please tell me what I said in my above post that wasn't true. That you are not a nice guy? As far as I know I'm still entitled to my opinion, which hasn't changed.
Anything else?
We all have to earn the respect we get, even the editor of Stereophile.
Than you Sue, for sticking around, and for helping to expose arrogance and a dismissive 'tude only previously hinted at.
Edits: 05/20/15
> As far as I know I'm still entitled to my opinion...
Of course, Sue, never said otherwise.
> We all have to earn the respect we get, even the editor of Stereophile.
Never thought otherwise. Having read and reread the email exchange, there
isn't anything in it that I regret saying.
Congrats on landing the Audio Beat gig.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
I find contents of these emails shocking, and your views very 20th century.In all the time you have held your post, you could not find a single non male writer with talent or "spark", yet you hire sycophants like Erik Licthe who could not write his way out of a paper bag.
Respect is indeed earned by actions.
Edits: 05/20/15
i read where one female writer did write for JA's magazine in JA's posting.
also, how many women apply for a writing position in the hobby/field of audio? look at the A.A. board: i've seen only a few females and the males must number in the several hundreds. why expect the ratio to be different in audio magazines?
roger wang
Please don't get yourself banned again. While I appreciate your support, I don't think I can afford to pay the bail.
Aren't they payin' you the big bucks at TAB? :)
Anyway, I don't look good in orange.
...Bukowski said after being rejected for decades - yet he's best known American author with the pretty good body of work left behind. He wasn't ever accepted in New Yorker, Athlantic Monthly - and even after ALL of the international success, he was even rejected by the Oxford American in the early nineties...
Your achievements are nothing to be ashamed of - and you are still in the game! ;)
"Somebody was always controlling who got a chance and who didn't. - Charles Bukowski
Agreed. Rejection only encourages me.
I got a slow start at TAB due to mom being in a nursing home. As hard as I fought for her, she lost her battle with dementia Feb of this year. So now I sell her estate and give the proceeds to charity. I can't tell you how happy the family is with that. Not. Mom knew me better than I knew myself. She told me years ago I would never give up which is why I now get to deal with the greedy bastads of the world. Hey, sorry for the digression.
Mom only ever read one of my reviews. The dazed look on her face was priceless.
Thanks to the guys at TAB for hanging in with me.
I read a lot of Bukowski in the '70s and early '80s. After awhile I got tired of reading the same story time and again. Maybe I should go back and reread him again. Maybe I'll change my opinion. But I doubt it.
When they discover the center of the universe, a lot of people will be disappointed to discover they are not it. ~ Bernard Bailey
Here is some of the previously unpublished work, I think you might enjoy:
Portions from a Wine-Stained Notebook: Uncollected Stories and Essays, 1944-1990
"Somebody was always controlling who got a chance and who didn't. - Charles Bukowski
You made it clear in that insulting e-mail that in your view the only reason Sue ever got anything published in TAS (a "Triple A" mag) was that she was a token.
You are the editor of - as you've told us in various ways many times - the #1 hifi mag in the U.S. With all the contacts you have and despite your professed desire to hire women writers/reviewers, to claim that in f'ing DECADES you've been unable to find one single woman up to your vaunted standards is absurd. If I was a woman I'd either be doubled up in laughter or really pissed off. I guess at S'phile women are only suited for gigs selling ads.
Gee, I wonder why Sue doesn't like you.
... how come there aren't any women in 16/nyc?
I mean, that's a pretty large band.
:-)
nt
As with everything I do, I believe honesty and frankness are key. But yes, that upsets
people. So it goes...
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
Dave Pogue's question to me above about women in my band forced me to think more about this issue as it relates to you and S'phile. Don't think I can give you shit about not hiring women reviewers without being a hypocrite. I also am not in a position to name a bunch of women you could/should have hired and chose not to.Hence, I apologize for that 1/2 of my previous post. I still don't like your e-mails to Sue, but I was wrong to go off on you about not hiring women reviewers at S'phile. Sorry.
Edits: 05/20/15
> Dave Pogue's question to me above about women in my band forced me to
> think more about this issue as it relates to you and S'phile.
It's a complex subject. Yes, we should be more inclusive. But this can't
be at the expense of what we want to achieve. as I said in the email
exchange with Sue Kraft.
> Hence, I apologize for that 1/2 of my previous post. I still don't like
> your e-mails to Sue, but I was wrong to go off on you about not hiring
> women reviewers at S'phile. Sorry.
No problem. And people don't seem to remember that I have published women
writers in the past, most notably Lisa Astor, who as a writer ranked up there
with, for example, Art Dudley and Sam Tellig,
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
SP and in particular JA, still do measurements , Nuff Said, well , Almost, I wish you would test cartridges John ..
Regards.
What happens when JA retires or moves on?
Has anyone been trained specifically in his methodology? If not, any future measurements will have no correlation. No?
> What happens when JA retires or moves on?
I'm not going anywhere.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
Tell us your secret to living forever. :)
> Tell us your secret to living forever. :)
Good music, good beer, and always another deadline to meet.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
Good music, good beer, and always another deadline to meet - JA
Lucas warm, or ice cold ...
I believe, sir, you are correct.
Let me be the first to point out that Mr. Atkinson is free to hire or fire anyone he pleases. There is no question about that. He is not bound by some affirmative action directive, nor should he be.
But I will ALSO point that TAS (even currently) Part Time Audiophile. 6Moons, Tone Audio (I would need to double check this), and AV Showrooms, seemed to have had no difficulty in being able to find suitable, diversified talent.
I even find myself agreeing with 'Sprezza Tura'.
Don't think that's ever happened before.
(nt)
John,I hope you realize a lot of people who are NOT posting here appreciate your work, honesty and work ethic. We just don't want to get into this troll-fest.
Just thought I'd make an exception because you must feel a bit lonely sometimes!
JB
Edits: 05/20/15
> I hope you realize a lot of people who are NOT posting here appreciate
> your work, honesty and work ethic.
Thank you.
> We just don't want to get into this troll-fest.
Me neither :-)
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
your letter simply asked for merit in a writer and it could be that few few women are serious enough about reproduction of musical sound to entertain writing for this hobby.
it would also be that when you begin serious reviewing of equipment, you don't devote a whole 1st paragraph to silly look-at-me intros, ha as in the on-line magazine she is now writing.
roger wang
Thank you Sue, for giving us an insight into the private behavior of Mr Atkinson and exposing arrogance and obvious contempt for the competition and his colleagues.
How about little dignity here? You DO NOT know the facts, nor you know any of these people personally to make judgement, one way or the other.
I like both, Sue and JA, for what they contribute to this hobby - anything beyond that it's not my concern, nor should be anyone else. Just my 2c.
"Somebody was always controlling who got a chance and who didn't. - Charles Bukowski
Save the faux outrage. Are you calling Sue Kraft a LIAR???
Since this was publicly aired..it IS our business now.
Have you got nothing to do all day (and almost every day) except chase JA's tail?
Since you have been at it for so long I have to ask:
What's your agenda? Why don't you have nicer alternatives for your spare time (e.g. listening to music, changing cables, hanging out with friends)?
Maybe take a short FTL hike and come back with less hatred?
What do you think?
Disclaimer - I am neither a Stereophile fan, nor am I subscriber.
Pretty presumptuous for your to tel me how to spend my time.
My agenda, or lack there of, is none of your business.
JA is taken to task when he makes statements on well more than one occasion about a "chinese wall" between ads and editorial but has had his wife as an ad manager, and when this was exposed, the thread magically disappeared.
Now why don't change some cables or take a nice long hike.
> JA is taken to task when he makes statements on well more than one occasion about a
> "chinese wall" between ads and editorial but has had his wife as an ad manager, and when
> this was exposed, the thread magically disappeared.
If the thread disappeared it was nothing to do with me. But I don't believe it did disappear.
John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile
For the record, I did not mean to imply you had anything to do with posts or threads disappearing.
No outrage, it's embarrassment . The grown man, I was mistakenly assuming you were one, should stir away from any slanders and gossips, especially when you aren't confronting the MAN in person.
That's all I have to say. You are free to go into hysterics all you want - must be that time of the month ;)
"Somebody was always controlling who got a chance and who didn't. - Charles Bukowski
He should have turned over the reins to Jonathan Scull.
What ever happened to him?
"Somebody was always controlling who got a chance and who didn't. - Charles Bukowski
JS
Maybe it made him feel more important.
Despite that, he was -- and is -- a very fine and funny writer with a real passion for the music. I am sure many readers miss him.
!
The Mind has No Firewall~ U.S. Army War College.
Nt
Well, in that case, I cannot argue with you! ;-)
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
Always trust your cat.
Right!
"Once this was all Black Plasma and Imagination" -Michael McClure
we [wee]plural pronoun, possessive our or ours, objective us.
1.nominative plural of I. More than one.
Count me in Marty. I miss Tom too and would like him to do a blog as well.
Meat; It's the right thing to do. Romans 14:2
Edits: 05/12/15
A ST blog would interest me too, so long as it's not here and does not involve incessant sniping at an organization that he worked with and contributed to for decades. Seems to me he was a participant in the very alleged sins he now finds so amusing to mock. I'm sick of that. And I bet "some others of us" are too.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
Edits: 05/12/15
If you can't stand 'sniping', you are definitely coming to the wrong website.
Not sure where you think I said that.I'm just responding to the use of the word "we". Some Inmates agree and others don't is what I was saying in response to the definition of "we" which was in response to a response to . . . now I'm getting confused. ;-)
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
Edits: 05/12/15
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